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Post by blackwaterdiving on Sept 8, 2023 14:43:35 GMT -8
Need some help guys, was really excited about getting a kraken and I have dove it a few time. On surface it breaths great. 2 foot under water great, deeper it’s like breathing through a straw. I’m using a standard back plate and wing, so maybe the hight hog the can is too high. Any help?
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Post by scubalawyer on Sept 8, 2023 16:02:19 GMT -8
Need some help guys, was really excited about getting a kraken and I have dove it a few time. On surface it breaths great. 2 foot under water great, deeper it’s like breathing through a straw. I’m using a standard back plate and wing, so maybe the hight hog the can is too high. Any help? The only place for the can to be located for any DH reg is flat up against and touching your back and down low enough so the cans are between your shoulder blades. Any other configuration will result in less than optimal performance. My 2psi. M |
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 8, 2023 18:22:36 GMT -8
What was said above is so true; you need to place the demand stage of the double hose regulator below where single hose regulators usually are placed. The double hose needs to be low on your back. What you are experiencing is a difference in water pressure between the regulator's second stage and the center of your lungs, which is explained visually in this very old diagram by Bill Barada in his book, "Let's Go Diving" from the 1960s.  Two- vs Single-hose reg001 by John Ratliff, on Flickr This gives the examples contrasting the positions of the single hose verses the double hose regulators. Now, when you dive, if you go underwater in a horizontal position (as is now taught by a lot of agencies), the double hose regulator is at a disadvantage on inhalation, but at an advantage for exhalation resistance . When going underwater with a double hose regulator, it is better to do a surface dive and head-down swim to the bottom. This places the regulator in almost an optimum performance orientation. On the bottom, if the regulator is below your shoulder line and between your shoulder blades, a semi-upright position puts the regulator's second stage for a double hose right at about the centerline of the lungs, and you'll experience very nice breathing characteristics. Just so you'll know, there is probably nothing wrong with the Kraken; you need to experiment with positioning and get the best position possible. So when you go underwater, change positions to check breathing performance in each position. If inverted, you'll note that the Kraken will literally push air towards your lungs. Now the same goes for clearing the double hose mouthpiece. If you simply raise the mouthpiece above the regulator while it's out of your mouth, it will freeflow, and you can simply stick the freeflowing mouthpiece in your mouth without worry about clearing it, as it is already clear. If you don't pull it up for a freeflow, then you'll neet do tip our head a bit so that the right side is up when you blow into it to clear it.  John Photos003 by John Ratliff, on Flickr Note how low on my back the Mistral regulator is in this photo of me from 1970.  John & Mossback Mk 3-1 by John Ratliff, on Flickr Here you can see how low on my back the double hose regulator is from just a couple of years ago.  John & Mossback Mk 3-2 by John Ratliff, on Flickr This means that, when in the water and vertical, at the surface if you take the mouthpiece out of your mouth, it will freeflow. This is true unless you have a VDH DSV (Dive Surface Valve) and you rotate the valve to shut off the mouthpiece, to conserve air on the surface (no freeflow possible with the DSV in the shut position). 'Hope this helps. John |
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Post by herman on Sept 9, 2023 4:37:20 GMT -8
The fact it breaths good above water indicates the reg in ok. It sounds like an issue with how it's being worn. I'm guessing but I suspect you are over weighted and the BC is loose. This forces you to put a lot of air in the wing to get neutral and if the BC is loose it tends to be pulled above you while your weights are pulling your body down. This has the effect of raising the reg way above your body.
I had a friend dive a DH of mine and he complained about how hard it breathed. I was confused since it worked well for me until I looked at a photo of him, he was wearing a jacket BC and I could see several inches of air above his back through the armholes of the BC. The reg was physically 5 or 6 inches above his back, no wonder it breathed hard.
There are other problems with modern BCs that may also be an issue. Bent BP's tend to hold the reg too high off the back and the cans usually have to be put too high on most BCs since the cans tend to hit the top of the BC/plate. Another issue is the BC will ride up once in the water, moving the cans toward the head. Having the harness tight enough and a crotch strap to prevent the BC from riding up helps a lot.
The AK is capable of less than 1 inch of cracking pressure (I do NOT recommend it being setup that low) but to maintain that underwater, unlike single hose regs you MUST keep the reg in the proper location.
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Post by blackwaterdiving on Sept 9, 2023 4:46:49 GMT -8
I’m not over weighted, and had little air in my wing. I guess I need to try to find a plate made for dh setup
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Post by james1979 on Sept 9, 2023 12:57:41 GMT -8
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Post by spirou on Sept 10, 2023 4:46:55 GMT -8
Standard back plate is not a good way. I throw out mine to use another way.  G0085720 by Patrick Michel, sur Flickr |
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Post by spirou on Sept 10, 2023 5:24:54 GMT -8
Today I use different configurations, one is a soft back pack, this one is a old dive rite soft back pack. I also use a aqualung Zuma, due his soft back pack, so the reg stay close from the lung, I test different configurations during few month... So you must try. THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS BUT THE REG MUST STAY CLOSE FROM THE LUNG AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE , BETWEEN YOUR SHOULDERS. Respectfully Fred  pl p 002 by Patrick Michel, sur Flickr |
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Post by luis on Sept 10, 2023 6:21:28 GMT -8
Today I use different configurations, one is a soft back pack, this one is a old dive rite soft back pack. I also use a aqualung Zuma, due his soft back pack, so the reg stay close from the lung, I test different configurations during few month... So you must try. THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS BUT THE REG MUST STAY CLOSE FROM THE LUNG AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE , BETWEEN YOUR SHOULDERS. Respectfully Fred pl p 002 by Patrick Michel, sur Flickr Great pair of pictures! That is some the best pictures I have seen actually illustrating the issue and the solution. And these pictures really illustrate the contrasting point. I also like your swimming position. I actually prefer just slightly more horizontal, but not much more. That is a very comfortable swimming position. I hope you don't mind if I copy and use your pictures in the future to illustrate this point. Thanks |
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Post by luis on Sept 10, 2023 6:29:12 GMT -8
Standard back plate is not a good way. I throw out mine to use another way. G0085720 by Patrick Michel, sur Flickr This picture shows perfectly why the bent back-plate is not good for a single tank and that is specially true with that single tank adapter. That back-plate was specifically designed for double tanks and adapting it to a single tank is (IMHO) not a good idea, even if it going to be used with a single-hose regulator. It just move your tank so far away from your back that it is not comfortable even carrying the tank out of the water. It moves the weight too far away from the divers CG (center of gravity). That regulator is several inches above the back of the diver throat (where the breathing effort is actually perceived) (and even further from the lungs). Without a wing/ bladder in place, you can actually see how far that back-plate and single tank adapter moves the tank away from the diver's back. I just don't understand why that has become popular with some modern dive configurations. Just because it is available... it makes no sense. Again, thanks for the pictures. |
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Post by spirou on Sept 10, 2023 8:53:29 GMT -8
Today I use different configurations, one is a soft back pack, this one is a old dive rite soft back pack. I also use a aqualung Zuma, due his soft back pack, so the reg stay close from the lung, I test different configurations during few month... So you must try. THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS BUT THE REG MUST STAY CLOSE FROM THE LUNG AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE , BETWEEN YOUR SHOULDERS. Respectfully Fred pl p 002 by Patrick Michel, sur Flickr Great pair of pictures! That is some the best pictures I have seen actually illustrating the issue and the solution. And these pictures really illustrate the contrasting point. I also like your swimming position. I actually prefer just slightly more horizontal, but not much more. That is a very comfortable swimming position. I hope you don't mind if I copy and use your pictures in the future to illustrate this point. Thanks Thanks Luis No problem, you can use my photos, Infact I am almost horizontal, but when i make the picture , I turn the camera a bit 😅, the camera was on a long pipe (3ft) Fred |
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Post by spirou on Sept 10, 2023 9:05:46 GMT -8
I just purchase in France a twin (2x10 litres) spiro. I am gone make photos soon, to show the harness, that spiro use, another approach than USD.
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Post by spirou on Sept 10, 2023 10:11:11 GMT -8
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Post by vance on Sept 10, 2023 16:21:09 GMT -8
I really like the Spiro strap system where the top anchor is a yoke around the tank valve, and the boot is the bottom attachment point.
When I saw that, my thought was, "This is like, why weren't there wheels on luggage and ice chests WAY before someone finally figured it out?"
Simple. Elegant. Very practical.
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