Healthways double hose

[Creed]

Does anyone have a manual for the Healthways Doublehose? I've disassembled the reg. Under the sintered filter is a little "plate" of metal with a small hole in the middle. I've not had any luck disassembling it further. Does this come out? What's behind it? Should I bother removing it?
Also, does anyone know the purpose of the hole in the box, covered in a rubber seal, where the exhaust comes in? Why is it there? Does it help, in some way, with balancing the exhalation pressure or something? Thanks.

[SeaRat]

Creed,

I just bought a Healthways Scuba regulator on E-Bay yesterday (there's two more there now too). Yes, the little plate does come out. There is an O-ring on the plate, and under it is the valve spring and valve plunger. The seat is under that, and also has an O-ring around it. Yes, you need to remove the plate, the spring, plunger and the seat. You will probably have to replace two O-rings to make it function well, or at least lubricate them and, of course, clean out any corrosion that may be present. You can probably use a smoll screwdriver (jewelers) to work the plate out, and then the rest should fall out, except the seat. That again may take some work, but can be pushed out with the pin from above.

The plate is called a '"K" restrictor' and is a calibrated orifice. The concept is explained very well in the book, Basic Scuba by Fred Roberts. But basically, at low tank pressure you will start to feel a restriction on your breathing, which will dissipate as you ascend. How low is your tank before you "feel" the restriction? Well, it depends upon your "stroke volume" (how much you breath, and how quickly), and can be worked out mathematically, but it's more than I want to spend on it right now. The orifice is 1/32 inch, I believe, in diameter. As you ascend, the pressure lessens and the restriction is removed, for a little while (until the pressure drops further in your tank). So this was Healthway's way of giving you a "positive reserve" built into the regulator. The regulators could be ordered with either the "K" restrictor or a "J" restrictor (which actually did not restrict, but just held the spring). The "J" restrictor had a hole large enough to not restrict air flow, even at low tank pressure, as it assumed that you were using a "J" valve with the regulator (way before "Sea View" guages were used).

Now, for the question, which of the three Scuba regulators do you have? Is it the original Scuba, with the face plate with weird openings:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7231796412

Or was it like this one:

cgi.ebay.com/Healthways-Vintage-double-hose-scuba-regulator-NICE_W0QQitemZ7233531169QQcategoryZ74003QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If it is like this one, does it include the "internal yolk screw"? If it does, and has a cover plate on the first stage with an air ejector directly into the intake hose, you've got a regulator which was right up there with the Mistral. If it is either of the two earlier regulators, they still breath very smoothly, but not quite so nice (or so much volume of air) as the later "Scuba Deluxe."

By the way, the first link above is the regulator I just bought (haven't received it yet). This Healthways Scuba regulator, the original one, is the first regulator I ever had at age 14 in 1959. I dived it for several years, and loved how it breathed. I earned it in the strawberry and bean fields of the Willamette Valley, when I lived in Salem, Oregon. I dove it in the Little North Fork of the North Santiam River, and in several coastal areas of Oregon and Washington.

John

[Creed]

John,
Thanks for the reply.
It is the original regulator. I got the restrictor plate out. Can it be drilled out to eliminate the restriction?
Also, what is the purpose of the rubber piece where the exhaust connects to the box? I still haven't figured it out.

[SeaRat]

Ahh, the exhaust port with the rubber piece. This is why I want to get that regulator, to test their original idea. If you'll remember the Cousteau patent, it showed a rubber flutter, or duckbill, valve. The patent really was about getting the exhaust at the diaphragm of the regulator, but the Cousteau patent was pretty specific on the type of valve, in this case, the duckbill valve. That little flexible rubber piece was Gustuv Della Valle's way of getting around the Cousteau patent. It was pretty ingenious too. If you'll notice, there is a metal tube that protrudes into the area of this exhaust (maybe you'll need to take the rubber piece off to see it). The theory was that the flexible rubber would be slightly pressurized by the ambient air in the regulator (slightly higher than the diaphragm), and it would push the rubber up against the metal tube, and form a seal. That is the non-return for this regulator. Unfortunately, it did not work too well, and Healthways backed it up with a small duckbill valve held with a "C" clamp inside the tube. What I'm curious about is whether I can get a more flexible vinyl piece than they had available at the time, and make that exhaust work the way it was designed to work.

There are several drilled holes on the exhaust tube, with a rubber band around them. According to Fred Roberts in Basic Scuba, it acts as an "auxillary exhaust." Here is the entire comment on the unique exhaust system of the original Healthways Scuba regulator:

The exhaust cavity is composed of an exhaust tube, brazed to the case assembly, and a baffle plate that has a lip to hold the exhaust diphragm (28). The exhaust tube is cut off at the same angle that the plate is mounted, so that normally internal air pressure, which is slightly above ambient, keeps the diaphragm (28) pressed on the edge of the exhaust tube.

On the exterior of the case, assembly holes are drilled about the exhaust cavity to allow the exhaust air to escape outside. Also several holes are drilled on the lower side of the ehaust tube to act as an auxiliary exhaust, should the exhaust diaphragm (28) stick to the edges of the tube.

The auxilary holes in the exhaust tube are covered on the outside of the tube by the exhaust auxiliary valve (27). Finally, the exhaust diaphragm (28), is attached to the lips of the baffle plate by a clamp (31). A flutter valve (33) is inserted in the hose end of the case exhaust tube to back up the other two exhaust systems.

Spent air reaching the exhaust tube has two paths. First it will cause the exhaust diaphragm to lift from the tube edge, due to a superior pressure caused bythe exhalation, and secondly, it will leak out the auxiliary holes, which are normally sealed bythe auxiliary valve (27). The air pressure within the second chamber, slightly above ambient, acts as a cushion for the exhaust diaphragm and will reseat the diaphragm as soon as the exhalation has stopped.

Concerning the "K" restrictor, yes it could be drilled, but I wouldn't do it. This was part of the design of this regulator, and was pretty unique to Healthways regulators. At least try it out and experience it first before you drill it out. Or, better yet, inquire about whether some shop somewhere has a "J" restrictor in its old parts that you could buy, so you would have both. When I get mine, I'll look to see which it has. If it's the "J" restrictor, I'll let you know. I have a "K" restrictor in a Healthways first stage (no housing) that I've had for years.

John

[duckbill]

searat said:

The plate is called a '"K" restrictor' and is a calibrated orifice.................. The regulators could be ordered with either the "K" restrictor or a "J" restrictor (which actually did not restrict, but just held the spring). The "J" restrictor had a hole large enough to not restrict air flow, even at low tank pressure, as it assumed that you were using a "J" valve with the regulator (way before "Sea View" guages were used).
John

Hey, John. I don't mean to butt in here, but are you sure it isn't the other way around? The illustration in my "Basic SCUBA" shows the J-restrictor having the smaller orifice.
It would make sense that a J-restrictor would be the one to act as a reserve, while a K-restrictor would act more as a spacer to allow free airflow as in a K-valve.

[SeaRat]

Duckbill,

You may be right. I don't have Basic Scuba in front of me right now, so I'll have to check. But it isn't the diagrams I'll check, but Fred Robert's description of the operation. The reason I thought of it backwards from you is that I was assuming that the terms "J" and "K" would refer to the valves the regulator would be mated to. You really did not want the restrictor on a "J" valve, and you needed it to work on a "K" valve. The use of the "J" valve with the regulator allowed a diver to go back down deeper, whereas the restrictor would not allow that (and still allow breathing). For wreck diving, you don't want the restrictor orifice for that reason--it forces you up if you want to breath. That was my interpretation on it. But, it may be backwards. I'll have to see.

John

[duckbill]

I'd like to know what you find. I have the second (1963) edition and it doesn't go into details under the double-hose "SCUBA Regulator" section. I was just going by the illustration for the "SCUBA Regulator" (3-18, p.112). But then under the "Scubair 'J'" it mentions the restrictor orifices in the way that you described: the "K" restrictor for positive reserve in the standard Scubair model is replaced by the larger "J" no-reserve restrictor in the Scubair "J". It had nothing to do with which valve the regulator was attached to in this case, but, rather, was because of the fact that the Scubair "J" has a built-in constant reserve. I didn't see that last night.

However, since no model of the double-hose "SCUBA" reg has a built-in constant reserve, maybe the principle is reversed to avoid confusion during marketing, with the "J" restrictor having the smaller orifice for positive reserve in this case (?).
If you find text for the "SCUBA Regulator" model regarding the orifices in the 1960 version, I'd sure like to know.
Thanks.

[duckbill]

John,
The more I am looking at this the more confused I am getting. I need to find a quiet time to just sit down and sort which text goes with what illustration and for what year model. I'm also finding more answers and I think you were correct in the first place. I was wrong in some of my comments concerning the "J" model in my previous post because of text/illustration confusion. The main thing I did note is that the part numbers for the "J" and "K" restictors are the same regardless of whether for the single or double hose units, and the text does specifically say that the "K" orifice is the smaller of the two.
This is starting to turn into a Healthways single-hose restrictor orifice conversation and away from Creed's original post. Sorry for the interruption Creed. Congratulations to both you and John on your Healthways double hose buys. Someday I'd like to get one to play with too.

[SeaRat]

Duckbill,

I see exactly what you see, the part number for the "K" restrictor in the Healthways Scubair and Scuba Star (1960-62) single hose regulators are the same as the Healthways Scuba regulators (double hose) of the same years, 1611-71 "K" restrictor. Under the explaination of the Scubair (1962- ), Fred Roberts says in Basic Scuba:

The "K" reserve restriction action is accomplished by restrictor stem (43) seal in packing nut (16) by "O" ring (7) on its perifery. Packing nut (16) is sealed to body (42) by gasket (15). The restrictor stem (43) is driven into the body, via a screw thread near its forward end, by knurled knob (44) retained to thee stem by screw (45). See cross section detail (A), Figure 3-20, for operaton of reserve mechanism.

Air from the high pressure portion of the body, directly from the cylinder, has two paths it may take to the intermediate pressuer piston valve section of te regulator. The first path is directly to the piston seat by way of a small unobstructed hole. The second path, of larger bore, is tlosed by a metal to metal seal between the restrictor stem end (43) and a metal orifice machined into the body (42). Rotation of knob (44) simply unscrews stem (43), opening the valve seat to by-pass air around the small restricted hole to the piston seat.

The reserve action itself is of the calibrated orifice principle described in detail in the valve section of this chapter. Briefly it is the control of the flow rate of gas--air in this case--by directing the flow through a small plate orifice or equivalent device which acts to contlol proportionally thea actual rate of gas flow through the hole for a given upstream, high pressure side, pressure. The greter the upstream pressure, the more air can be squeezed through he hole. As cylinder pressure falls, the flow rate through the small hole decreases, and eventually the diver begins to notice some difficulty in satisfying his demand for air.

Air continues to flow through the orifice, but breathing effort becomes more and more difficult as upstream pressuer falls and eventually the diver must either by-pass the orifice, or surface. The selector is intended for predive adjustment, not submerged reserve release.

This explaination is of the Scubair single hose regulator from 1962 on, but the concept applies to the earlier double hose regulators. Interestingly, the first Healthways Scuba regulator, the one we talk about in this thread, did not have the option of a "J" restrictor (no restriction). That came later with the second generation of these double hose regulators, with a different box and a mushroom valve for the exhaust valve.

It is apparent that Healthways, from this description, considered the "K" restrictor to be the one with the small hole, just as you survised above. The description of the R-valve operation is on page 265 of Fred Roberts' book (second edition). In that section, Fred has two tables, one for the discharge volume of air verses upstream pressure, in psig (assumed atmospheric pressure of 14.7 psia at the surface). This table shows that the 1=32 inch wide orifice will flow 1.91 cbuic feet free air per minute at 120 psig. A second table shows, with as assumed surface air consumption rate of 0.895 cubic feet per minute, a diver at 30 feet will need 1.582 cubic feet of air per minute to satisfy his/her demand, which the regulator with the "K" restrictor will do. But at 40 feet, that diver will need 2.11 cbuic feet pre minute to satisfy his/her demand, and the restrictor will not allow more than 1.91 cubic feet, so the diver will feel a restriction and need to ascend to be rid of it. There is a lot more there for those with a copy of his book, but I wanted to put enough here so that those without a copy will understand the basic concept of the "K" restrictor orifice.

John

[duckbill]

Thanks John.
-duckbill

[SeaRat]

Creed,

I received my Healthways Scuba regulator, and it was not in the best of shape (but that was how it was advertised). The hoses had not only dry rotted, but reeked of tobacco smoke. So they are in the trash. But I really just wanted to get the box and mechanism, and get one working again. I have it entirely apart, and will be cleaning it over the next week. I noticed that my original restrictor, which I've had for years, had no O-ring on it, but this one does. I'm continuing to be impressed with the condition of the regulator after all these years. The diaphragm is still in good shape, as is the exhaust diaphragm. Healthways made quality parts for this regulator, and the seat of nylon, the seat plunger, etc., were seemingly of higher quality than the components which went into the U.S. Divers Co. Mistral.

When I was a kid, I had the choice of a Dacor Dial-a-Breath, a USD Mistral, and the Healthways Scuba regulator (all used), and I ended up choosing the Healthways Scuba. Now I know why--the components were of higher quality (except the hoses).

So it will be fun to get this functioning again. More on it as I go.

John

[Creed]

I have mine apart right now. I gave the internals a soaking in some vinegar, which took care of most of the minor corrosion. The front still has quite a bit of surface crud. I am hoping to get it polished back up, and touch up the blue paint.
It leaks slightly when hooked to air. I am going to try polishing the nylon seat, and see if that doesn't help it seat a bit better.
Either the exhaust diaphram rotted, or someone used almost a tar like substance to seal it up, because it has this black sticky gook all over where the exhaust was. I'm going to try boiling it in a soapy mixture to loosen up the hardened stuff. Let me know what you use to replace the exhaust diaphram and duckbill, because I'll need one too. Mine are too far perished.
I am probably going to end up putting a USD hose setup on it. Depends on if I find a Healthways mouthpiece or not. I'll post some pictures soon.

[SeaRat]

Creed,

I partially assembled my Healthways Scuba this evening, and got HP stage lockup with no leaks. I also positioned the demand levers at right angles to the air intake, and that provides a venturi assist (you can feel the air going out the intake tube). That means that this reg is a nice-breathing regulator. Mine did not come with a duckbill exhaust backup, so that must have been lost along the way. I'm going to try it with only the two exhaust valves. I need to find a rubber band of the correct dimensions to cover the tube holes though. Concerning the exhaust diaphragm, I think a lot of people used some sort of goop on it. Try cleaning it up, as it is rubberized nylon, and pretty inpregnable to things. The goop should come off and leave the exhaust diaphragm intact. My main diaphragm has a bit of a square spot, and so eventually I may need to either reinforce it or make a new one, which should not be hard to do either.

John

[Creed]

I polished the nylon seat a little with a piece of 1500 grit sandpaper. It seats now with no obvious leakage. I'll try to clean that exhaust diaphragm tonight. If you make a duckbill, can you make an extra for me? Mine is almost intact. It tore a little where it stuck near the c-clip. I might be able to reuse it, or perhaps cut a USD duckbill down to fit.
Also, SeaRat, do you have a parts diagram? And do you know what size the o-ring is?

[SeaRat]

Creed,

Healthways, in Fred Roberts book Basic Scuba, stated:

An occasional slow leak may develop in the Scuba regulator as a result of foreign matter such as dirt, salt, etc., getting into the high pressure block. Leakage resulting from foreign matter in the high pressure block can be corrected by cleaning or replacing the high pressure plunger (12). This high pressure nylon valve plunger, after being cleaned, can be reseated by gently turning the cone or end of the valve plunger against the valve seat (14). Many times, this simple action, if done gently, will be sufficient to stop a slow leak. NOTE: You must do this only while the valve seat and the plunger are in the valve body (16), because this is the only way to smooth down the seating area with all parts in perfect alignment. The valve seat (14) is removable for easy replacement and can also be turned over and used on the other side. This feature doubles the life of thevalve seat.

[/I]

I have a diagram from that book of the Healthways Scuba regulator, and will post it later today or tomorrow. I do not currently plan to put a duckbill in mine, as I want to see how the exhaust works with only the exhaust diaphragm and the "exhaust auxilary valve" (a rubber band) in place. If I get that functioning correctly, the duckbill is not necessary, and simply adds resistance to the exhaust. I think this exhaust system has the potential to be better than the USD exhaust with a duckbill. That's why I wanted to get this regulator in the first place. If so, then I will have a regulator that is not dependent upon a duckbill, and has a very low exhalation resistance.

John