Healthways double hose

[Deleted]

Hi John,

have you ever tried a Nemrod snark III or a Dräger PA 61 II ? Both have no duckbill but a diaphragm air outlet. Are they comparable?

regards

frank

[SeaRat]

Frank,

I'm at work right now, and cannot put the parts diagram up yet. But I do have a Nemrod Snark III regulator, with its mushroom exhaust valve. This is not comparable to the original Healthways Scuba regulator's exhaust, which was very unique. The Healthways Scuba (original model) does not have the exhaust coming into the bottom box. The bottom box is actually simply a plate covering the diaphragm. The exhaust tube comes into the top box, on the opposite side as the intake tube. The exhaust is open to the top box (not separated), except by a rubber diaphragm. The pressure inside the top box from the intake air pushes this diaphragm against the top's cut-off opening, and "plugs" it. There are holes around the exhaust (which is separated from the main chamber by a metal enclosure), which allows exhausted air to escape to the water.

The original Healthways Scuba pretty unique, and I don't think the Dräger PA 61 II is the same either (although I haven't seen that one yet, it probably has a mushroom valve). The Healthways Scuba regulator allowed Healthways to get around the Cousteau patent on exhaust systems, at least for a while. I'll post photos and a drawing soon.

My Snark III is sensitive enough that it will "leak" air in an upright position because of the size of the exhaust mushroom valve (which is greater in radius than the regulator's breaking pressure).

John

[Deleted]

Hi John,

give me your email and I´ll send you a breakdown of the Dräger Pa 61 II.

best regards
frank

[SeaRat]

Creed,

Here's the parts diagram I promised. I got my Healthways Scuba regulator together, put hoses on it (I have a set with a Hope-Page mouthpiece on it from my Snark III) and got it breathing. It is still a pretty hard breathing regulator by second generation double hose standards, but very smooth. Here's the parts diagram:



I should have some photos to post by weekend.

John

[Seahuntjerry]

Hi,
I Have NEW hp plungers the white cone used in Healthways and sportsways regulators. Jerry

[SeaRat]

Frank,

I left you a PM with my e-mail address on it. You'll have to look it up here though.

Creed,

I was wrong a few posts back when I said this was a "hard breather." I was wrong. Today I was playing around with the linkage adjustment, and adjusted it as far up as possible without leaking when the cover plate is in place. That made a big difference in the breathing characteristics of the regulator. What I found out is that you need an Allen wrench and a regular wrench (or small Cresent wrench) to make the adjustment. You also need to do it at low tank pressure (300 to 500 psig), as the lever adjustment changes with the pressure behind it, and it will leak at low tank pressure if you adjust it at high tank pressure. Here is what Healthways said in their quotes in Basic Scuba, by Fred Roberts:

A slow air leak can also develop in any regulator if the levers in the linkage assembly (18) get out of adjustment. The compound lever0s in the linkage assembly can be adjusted with a single adjusting screw (19) to control the flow of air.

Turning the adjusting screw in (clockwise) increases the pressure of the lever against the diaphragm, which incleases the flow of air. By turning the adjusting screw out (counterclockwise) you decrease the pressuer of the lever against the diaphragm and therexf decrease the flow of air.

Adjust the regulator only when it is mounted on a tank; for best adjustment the tank should have pressure of 300 to 500 psig.

IMPORTANT: For best results, always keep the adjusting screw turned in (clockwise) as far as possible, but only to the point where the air will not flow by itself when the diaphragm is reassembled on the regulator.

What I found is that every millimeter of height is critical to this regulator. To get best performance, take it to its uppermost height adjustment at the lower pressures. This will give best results, and be very pleasing. This is more what I remember from this regulator from when I was a kid breathing on it.

Tomorrow's the exciting day, as I will dive the Healthways Scuba (if conditions are right) for the first time since I dove one in 1970 (before that, it was my regulator from 1959 to 1963, when I finally bought a single hose regulator, the Voit 40 fathom).

John

[SeaRat]

I dove the Healthways Scuba regulator today. Here's an exerpt from my dive log:

This was a dive to test the Healthways Scuba regulator, and in particular the exhaust system. I bought it minus one part of the exhaust system, a duckbill backup valve. The regulator's exhaust is supposed to be sealed by an exhaust diaphragm which pushes in from air pressure inside the regulator. This unique design has a lot of positive attributes, but apparently it does not work without the duckbill valve. That valve. being absent, allowed water to come into the regulator's exhaust hose, which made the exhalation extremely difficult at times. This was especially a problem when I was on my left side. On my right side, the regulator performed well.

The dive also tested whether the single stage unit worked as well as some others from the same era. I had used it as a kid, and had not remembered any detrimental effects from its breathing characteristics. I used my twin 50s, and it was hooked to a 3000 psi source. This made it more difficult to breath on initially, but it was not bad. In the middle pressures, it breathed quite nicely, and below 1000 psi it was pretty good. I'd say it was not quite where a Mistral would be, but I did not suffer from air deprevation, or from unduely hard inhalation.

This was a pretty intensive dive, as the river was high and the current swift. It was the first time I've had current which actually moved rocks on the bottom in places. It also surged a bit. I started out in a pool where the current hit the rocks, and provided a eddy I could get into for awhile while I evaluated the regulator. After about 15 minutes, I actually almost called off the rest of the dive with this regulator, due to the exhaust problems. But then I determined that it was controlable by my position, and so continued under the intense current toward deeper water (I hand surfaced and thrown a large fishing weight out onto the sand). The currents were confusing, and I wanted to be on the other side of the river as I continued downstream. Vis was 4-5 feet, and I could see the rocks coming, and so simply pushed off them when I came by them. At one point in the deep area, I held onto a metal rod to watch the bottom and determine how the regulator was working. When I held my position on my right side, it performed well, and got better during the dive as the tank pressure went lower. All this time, for the first 25 to 30 minutes, I had my Sherwood octopus in my right hand just in case there was a failure of the regulator. That didn't happen, and I never needed the Sherwood regulator.

I went through the high rocks area, and then the current moderated, and I got to where some fishermen wore working the river. I stayed upcurrent from one, spent more time watching the bottom, and then exited. I gave the fisherman a fishing lure that I had found on the bottom.

This regulator definately needs the auxilary duckbill valve. Without it, there are problems with the exhaust system. But the regulator also breaths pretty well underwater. I used a Hope-Page mouthpiece and Nemrod hoses on it. I also had removed the intake non-return valve in the mouthpiece, as this always helps performance in any regulator. Here's the dive profile from this dive:

I noticed that there were some "slow down" alarms on my Suunto Cobra computer. These occurred during the high current parts of the dive, where I had to go up and over very large rocks (ten to fifteen feet high) in the current. I just looked at the manual, and these alarms occur when my ascent rate exceeds 10 meters per minute, or 33 feet per minute. In a river, going over rocks, that's pretty easy to exceed.

I was diving my twin 50s, which are a 3000 psi system. I looked over the seat, and determined that it is much the same design as the Sportsways HP seat (and I had another one in case this seat couldn't take the pressure during my dry run yesterday). I decided it would take the 3000 psi, and so used it there. This produced no problems other than a bit harder inhalation resistance. Because I had relatively long hoses, I could position the regulator well down on my back, and that worked well too. I will have to figure out a duckbill valve for the regulator though. My LDS has two of these regulators on display, and maybe I can talk the owner out of one from one of her Healthways Scuba regulators.

John

PS--This evening, I found that one of the mushroom valve holders for my Nemrod Snark III regulator will fit sideways inside the Nemord exhalation hose, just above the exhaust outlet. I'm going to try that to "fix" the exhaust program.

[Turtleguy9]

Aloha SeaRat
I have a prototype Ducksbill I got from Customworks. I just have not had the ambition, or time to install it in one of my Healthways. You might check with him and see if he has another one available. Its hand dipped latex, and looks to be a perfect size.
Turtleguy9

[swimjim]

Slightly off topic but I have a healthways double hose, Brown label 63-66 vintage. I have used it with my steel 72's and its a sweet smooth breather. I was wondering if these will work with 3000 pound tanks or do I need to keep them under 2250? Thanks.

Jim

[SeaRat]

Jim,

I cannot talk to the long-term use of the Healthways Scuba regulators on 3000 psia systems, as there may be something having to do with the design of the yolk which could be compromised. But the valve mechanism seemed to take 3000 psig just fine. It will be a bit "stiffer" in breathing at the 3000 psig than at a more normal 2475 psig (2250 + 10% overfill).

John

[duckbill]

searat said:

I noticed that there were some "slow down" alarms on my Suunto Cobra computer. These occurred during the high current parts of the dive, where I had to go up and over very large rocks (ten to fifteen feet high) in the current. I just looked at the manual, and these alarms occur when my ascent rate exceeds 10 meters per minute, or 33 feet per minute. In a river, going over rocks, that's pretty easy to exceed.

I would also wonder if the alarms may have been erroneous due to the pressure fluctuations involved with current.

[swimjim]

searat said:

Jim,

I cannot talk to the long-term use of the Healthways Scuba regulators on 3000 psia systems, as there may be something having to do with the design of the yolk which could be compromised. But the valve mechanism seemed to take 3000 psig just fine. It will be a bit "stiffer" in breathing at the 3000 psig than at a more normal 2475 psig (2250 + 10% overfill).

John

Thanks John. As I don't "heavily" dive my double hose regs it would probably be okay. Sometimes its just easier to grab an '80 if thats what I have left(and not bleed it down).

Jim

[Creed]

Here's a look at my top box, for those who haven't seen one:

You can see the tar like stuff where the exhaust diaphram mounts.
The cover looks ok. It's got a lot of crud, and some scratches

[Creed]

Here's some pics of the regulator after a good cleaning. WD 40 got the tarlike stuff off fairly easily. I've still got a slight leak at the hp seat. I'll try spinning the plunger or replacing it.


Isn't that a nice looking pile of projects?

[Deleted]

Can someone post a picture of the Valve seat "o-ring and valve seat. I have the same regulator as the picture above. I am trying to get it in working order.

Thanks.
scubajim1