Non return valve for Hope Page mouth piece

[scubajim1]

Hi Everyone,
I am looking for a non return valve for a Healthway's Hope Page mouth piece. I have tried the USD but the flange on the stem is up too high.

Does anyone have any leads on where I can get a replacement?

Thanks,
scubajim1

[SeaRat]

Scubajim1,

I'll look at mine, as I have two extra here. They are an odd size and I'm not sure that there are any made that will fit anymore. How many do you need?

John

[scubajim1]

Hey Searat,

Thank you for the reponse.

I only need one.

Scubajim1

[duckbill]

searat said:

They are an odd size and I'm not sure that there are any made that will fit anymore. John

WHAT!?
I wonder if there any made with the right stem size but a larger mushroom which could be trimmed down. And here I bought the Hope-Page as a backup for if or when the USD mouthpiece and/or hose supply dries up!
I guess if worse comes to worse one could fashion a neoprene disc held on by a small stainless screw and nut. Are there any similar or other expedient tips for making these mouthpieces "clear-EZ" again?

[SeaRat]

I am going to check when I get home, but I think the mushroom valves of the older, but very good, Sportsways plastic second stages might just fit the Hope-Pape mouthpiece system. I'll give you an update soon (at least it seems reasonable).

John

[SeaRat]

Okay, I got home and pulled out my White Stag Sealung second stage that I put on a Sportsways Waterlung first stage regulator. It was manufactured by Sportsways for White Stag, and has a black plastic body. The non-return in it is about the same size as the non-return on a Hope-Page mouthpiece; it is just a few millimeters smaller in diameter, but it makes a seal on the sealing surface of the Hope-Page Mouthpiece non-return valve inserts. I confirmed this by taking the SeaLung's non-return out, and putting it into the Hope-Page Mouthpiece insert. What I'm saying is that, even though I have one extra mushroom valve for the Hope-Page Mouthpiece system, I would encourage you to try getting a new mushroom valve (preferably silicone, if available) for the White Stag/Sportsways plastic regulator's second stage (circa 1975). My Hope-Page Mouthpiece System non-return dates back to the 1950s, and even though I've been keeping them in pretty good shape, cannot compete with the flexibility and wearability of a more modern silicone (or even neoprene) mushroom valve for the single hose, plastic regulators. These regulators faced the same problem that the Hope-Page Mouthpiece system faced, in that the plastic material had to be thicker than on a metal surface. Therefore, they will work on the Hope-Page Mouthpiece system. While I still have not looked at it yet (though I have one) it is also possible (for the same reasons) that the Sherwood non-returns for their second stages (at least their 1980s versions) would work on a Hope-Page Mouthpiece system.

John

[scubajim1]

Hi SeaRat,
Do you know where I can get any of these? My local shop might have a sherwood non return valve but I wouldn't bank on that one.

Most of the local shops would rather tell me to buy a new regulator. Those old DH don't perform as good as the new ones.

I am sure everyone reading these posts have heard that story before.

Thanks,

[SeaRat]

scubajim1 said:

Hi SeaRat,
Do you know where I can get any of these? My local shop might have a sherwood non return valve but I wouldn't bank on that one.

Most of the local shops would rather tell me to buy a new regulator. Those old DH don't perform as good as the new ones.

I am sure everyone reading these posts have heard that story before.

Thanks,

Unfortunately, yes a lot of people actually believe this too. But it is not true. It took the single hose regulators over 20 years to come up to the performance of the double hose regulators and get their US Navy approval for use. This was because they couldn't meet the exhalation requirements, not the inhalation requirements. It wasn't until the 1970s, and the advent of the MR-12 by AMF Voit and the re-designed Calypso and Conshelf regulators by USD that single hose regulators met those requirements.

A lot of the perceived "hard to breath" perception on the double hose regulator has to do with the demand valve positioning. Most people do not realize how very important this is, and why we ol' mossbacks prefer double tank setups with the double hose regulator positioned well down on our backs, between our shoulder blades. If you'll look at my avator, you'll see how low I keep the double hose regulator on my back. This is contrary to the current craze, where divers are so worried about equipment malfunctions that they want their valves within reach over their head. Another thing to remember is that with vintage gear, there are far fewer O-rings to potentially rupture, making the older double hose regulators more reliable overall.

We've discussed this thoroughly at the vintage instruction pages (see the below site, print off the diagram on valve positioning, and read the entire thread):

vintagescuba.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=instruction&action=display&n=1&thread=1142&page=2

The DA Aquamaster at lower tank pressure (the interstage pressure starts low, at about 110 psig @ 3000 psig tank pressure and goes up to about 140 psig at 500 psig tank pressure), the Royal Aquamaster, and several other regulators (like the modified Trieste II and Snark III), all will breath as well or better than today's regulators. The US Divers older-style single stage Mistral will also, especially at low tank pressures, as will the Healthways Scuba Deluxe (with USD Hoses, especially). So don't let the store say that the single hose is a better design than the double hose, as that simply is not true. It is a different design, with its own advantages and disadvantages. Many "modern" divers don't realize how well the 1970s double hose regulators breathed, as they have never been exposed to them.

Now, concerning the non-returns, if the shop has a regulator repair facility and doesn't ship the regulators off, you should be able to find these mushroom valves. Be persistent, and ask nicely to see their parts drawers, especially if they have used parts. You should be able to find something.

John

[SeaRat]

I just bought two new Aqualung silicone mushroom valves for me Hope-Page mouthpiece. I found that these work on the intake side, but not on the outlet side. The outlet side (left side) is slightly smaller in diameter, and catches the mushroom valve. So I have a new silicone mushroom on the intake, and the older one on the outlet.

I also found that one of the mushroom valves I am using is a replacement from my Sherwood valve from the 1980s. I still have several original mushroom valves which work too.

So you should be able to find replacements for the mushroom valves for the Hope-Page, but take the mouthpiece system into the shop and try them.

John

[SeaRat]

Yesterday, I told you that the Aqualung non-return mushroom valve would work on the intake of the Hope-Page mouthpiece system. I learned today during a dive that this brings the inhalation effort to what I consider an unacceptable level. I decided not to continue a dive in high current, and instead switched to my DA Aquamaster for the rest of the dive. So I would not recommend this potential solution for the Hope-Page mouthpiece system at this time.

John

[scubajim1]

Thanks SeaRat.

Unfortunately, I was unable to go to my local diveshop this past weekend. My wife decided we were going to paint he master bathroom instead.

I can't complain because I am leaving for FL next week with my friends to go diving for a long weekend. ;D

[time2dive]

I found a couple of Seaquest valves that fit. I have not tested the regulator in the water yet, I just got it and cleaned and serviced it.

Timothy Ewing