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Post by vance on Sept 24, 2018 9:59:34 GMT -8
Phil, I think, what you have on the bottom is either an R4, or C3-N: it is definitely a much later model as denoted by the vane. When I looked at Charlies C3-N (N stands for New so I've been told) I saw that it was basically an R4 with a duckbill: anyway, that's what my sleep deprived brain believes it remembers JB The bottom picture with the vane turned slightly is a C-2 I used to have. I believe the R-4, C-3, C-3N did not have an adjustable vane. I see that the C-3N is different than the C-3 because it has the 2 diaphragm ring with the exhaust horn instead of the cover with the exh horn. It appears to me that the C-3N is more than basically an R-4. It looks just like an R-4 that they left the 2nd diaphragm off and stuck a duckbill in. It must have had something different about it besides that...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 10:39:18 GMT -8
according to the Dacor repair/parts manual - aside from the exhaust diaphragm in the R4 only, the resast of the parts are identical between the two models. This from Dacor Repair Manual volume one. Double hose, Dart, Olympic and Pacer thru model year 91 If not mistaken, Dacor had to do the double diaphragm to satisfy patent rights from the other brand. They did not use the duckbill in any of the models until that patent had expired. Not to sure where the exhaust diaphragm ties in with any part of the air delivery in terms of balance or equalization and that leaves me wondering if you can ditch the exhaust diaphragm in any of the models used, with the installation of a duckbill to handle the exhaust duty, ie C3-N
Ill try to post the parts breakdown with respective numbers for the C3N and R4 this evenung, if anyone wishesto see them. (?)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 11:27:12 GMT -8
that leaves me wondering if you can ditch the exhaust diaphragm in any of the models used, with the installation of a duckbill to handle the exhaust duty, ie C3-N Yes, you can. I had two R4's that the second diaphragm was toast so I replaced both with duckbills....worked just fine.HOwever, the second stage on these really sucked compared to a DA or RAM. My C3N (sold it off) had no vane adjustment and it came with a duckbill.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 11:36:38 GMT -8
thank you very much for that information. I was tempted to try that but not sure if there would be any problem because.
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 24, 2018 16:38:34 GMT -8
that leaves me wondering if you can ditch the exhaust diaphragm in any of the models used, with the installation of a duckbill to handle the exhaust duty, ie C3-N Yes, you can. I had two R4's that the second diaphragm was toast so I replaced both with duckbills....worked just fine.HOwever, the second stage on these really sucked compared to a DA or RAM. My C3N (sold it off) had no vane adjustment and it came with a duckbill. I have a C-3 that I have converted to an R-4, simply by putting the older box and ring onto the C-3. I had extra exhaust diaphragms, and so made that switch. But there is no problem substituting the exhaust diaphragm for a duckbill, except that you should retain a rubber ring to use under the bottom box and between the ring. Now, about the breathing characteristics of this R-4 or C-3 regulator. These guys are very persnickety, and need to be babied to get the interstage pressure correct. You have to move the pin with a small screwdriver to set the interstage pressure at about the maximum it can be. Then, you have a fairly good breathing regulator. The Dacor hose/mouthpiece system left something to be desired, and so replacing the Dacor hoses with USD/Voit hose/mouthpiece system will give better breathing characteristics. Using the new VDH Dive/Surface Mouthpiece. Now, concerning that "Dial-a-Breath" vane, it is not needed. The only function of that vane is to de-tune the regulator. It was put onto the early R-2 "Dial-a-Breath" regulator because divers of that time (1950s) thought easy breathing "wasted" air, and caused the diver to have less bottom time. That, we now know, is a false assumption. Navy divers would detune the Dial-a-Breath regulator so that it would not free-flow when they removed the mouthpiece from their mouth. You can see this vane in the following diagram from one of the original Dacor ads. John
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 7:11:50 GMT -8
Thank you John.
The ad "Dacor - one line" prerty much sums it up. Now if we could just pool resources to get someone to turn out new main diaphragms, I for one would be in for maybe 6 or more. Yep, I know.. wishful thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 7:32:22 GMT -8
Thank you John. The ad "Dacor - one line" prerty much sums it up. Now if we could just pool resources to get someone to turn out new main diaphragms, I for one would be in for maybe 6 or more. Yep, I know.. wishful thinking. Yep, a mold alone would cost $6080.00 and up. And that is last years price.
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Post by vance on Sept 25, 2018 8:34:27 GMT -8
according to the Dacor repair/parts manual - aside from the exhaust diaphragm in the R4 only, the resast of the parts are identical between the two models. This from Dacor Repair Manual volume one. Double hose, Dart, Olympic and Pacer thru model year 91 If not mistaken, Dacor had to do the double diaphragm to satisfy patent rights from the other brand. They did not use the duckbill in any of the models until that patent had expired. Not to sure where the exhaust diaphragm ties in with any part of the air delivery in terms of balance or equalization and that leaves me wondering if you can ditch the exhaust diaphragm in any of the models used, with the installation of a duckbill to handle the exhaust duty, ie C3-N Ill try to post the parts breakdown with respective numbers for the C3N and R4 this evenung, if anyone wishesto see them. (?) The Dacor 2 diaphragm model is supposed to work if one diaphragm fails. Turning a negative (complexity, and a small exhaust valve) into a positive? They sure jumped on the duckbill when USD's rights expired! It reminds me of Seamless's assertion that their Snark III was a superior THREE stage regulator when in reality they were claiming the overpressure relief valve is a 3rd stage. There is a difference between the horned and plain covers on the different Dacor models, of course, but it kind of looks like the plain cover on the R-4 and the R-2,3 are the same shape with either shiny or satin chrome.
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jviss
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Post by jviss on Sept 29, 2018 12:45:06 GMT -8
Yep, a mold alone would cost $6080.00 and up. And that is last years price. How did you come up with such a precise starting price? Have you actually gotten quotes for this? I know my knowledge is old, put it seems to me that a relatively flat, aluminum mold with no "pulls," while large in area, wouldn't be more than $3,000 or so. Could be almost free as a lunchbox project for someone working in a CNC environment. It's also a perfect piece for lathe work, so no CNC is really necessary. Anyone have a 3D model for the diaphragm?
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