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Post by nikeajax on Jan 24, 2011 9:40:00 GMT -8
So um, John, just HOW MANY regulators do you own? You sure do have fun playing with them. I like that you always get something that nearly everyone says is deadly and then walk us through what you did to prove 'em wrong! Thanks! Like you I like things that just aren't what's popular. Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Jan 27, 2011 18:47:10 GMT -8
Jaybird,
I don't exactly know how many regulators I have. Somewhere I have a photo of my shed, with a number of them in it. I'll see if I can rustle that up.
One of the reasons I try to get those regulators that no one really likes is that they are fairly cheap. They are also fun to play around with, and see what the designs involve. Sometimes I try to get into the engineer's heads and figure out what they were thinking. Dacor has some pretty tough, hardy regulators. The Dial-a-Breath original design is one of those. I just needed to clean it up a bit to use it, and all the rubber parts were still good (did not have a hose/mouthpiece though).
Someone asked why they had that Dial-a-Breath design, when in effect it de-tuned the regulator. Well, in its original design with the hoses, it would free-flow if I pulled it out of mouth during an inhalation. Some divers, including the Navy divers, used that feature to de-tune it just enough that it did not free-flow when pulled out of their mouth. The Naval Experimental Diving Unit had this to say:
SeaRat
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drado
Pro Diver
Posts: 186
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Post by drado on Sept 6, 2011 18:36:50 GMT -8
John, I hope you don't mind me reviving this thread, but this is one of the threads I kept reading before I got my reg. I recently acquired a Model one as well (without the dial-a-breath). It had no diaphragms, but was in otherwise very good shape: Even the hoses were relatively okay. They were different from the belted hoses I've seen in photos of other early Dacors though: But they were still very soft and supple! Even softer than some of the newer silicone hoses that I have! The internals were relatively clean. One thing I did notice when comparing it to John's photos was the position of the nozzle. In my model one, it seems that it was originally positioned about 90 degrees away from the intake horn: After a thorough cleaning of the parts came time for restoration. For the diaphragm, I used a Mistral diaphragm that I cut to size and glued neoprene around the edge to thicken the sealing surface. I also glued in a smaller stainless steel insert in the middle as a contact point for the levers: For the exhaust, I used a silicone duck-blll: Now, I enlarged one of the top-can holes closer to the intake nozzle to better align it, so now the intake nozzle is just a few degrees away from the intake horn. I also modified the LP lever with a USD seat carrier since the original seat on the reg just didn't want to seal anymore. Replaced the spring with a stiffer one as well: After futzing around with the levers and taking advice from the earlier posts here, I hammered out the bumps in the levers which seemed to improve the performance of the reg. Externally, after cleaning the hoses, I focused on the mouthpiece. It was cracked a bit superficially, but after some cleaning and a little silicone love, it actually is still useable and quite comfy. Tested it out in the pool. One thing about the mods I did, since the DIY diaphragm I made is a little too tall, it pinches on the duckbill, making exhalation somewhat difficult. Anyway, the lack of a venturi tube also gave my lungs quite a work-out: Overall, its no Mistral, but not having a stock reg, its hard for me to pass judgement on it. But it is a nice addition to the family of regs There may be some modifications done to it in the future (similar to Mossback's experiments), but they're all on the back-burner at the moment.
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 7, 2011 18:10:46 GMT -8
drado,
You have the actual Model One Dacor; I didn't know that the first one was not pointing down the intake! That is really interesting.
Thanks for sharing.
John
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drado
Pro Diver
Posts: 186
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Post by drado on Sept 8, 2011 4:24:48 GMT -8
Yeah, I had to do a double take when I was comparing photos. My initial plans were to make some sort of venturi for this, but after I discovered that the moving the nozzle to a prime location would require major surgery, I opted to try to just get it to function.
Not sure about the hoses though. Those were a BIG surprise - 50 year old rubber that was softer than silicone hoses. Might not be original to the reg though. But man, those valve cages are really small next to USD cages!
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Post by swimjim on Sept 9, 2011 12:57:05 GMT -8
Those 1" mouth pieces left a bit to be desired. Dacor went to 1.5" later on. Healthways used 1" mouth pieces too. On either reg I would substitute a USD mouth piece/hose set and that alone will boost the performance.
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drado
Pro Diver
Posts: 186
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Post by drado on Sept 10, 2011 3:29:43 GMT -8
Good plan Jim, It slipped my mind to try doing that the last time I was in the pool. I've got some new hose clamps, so I guess I'll replace the zip-ties I used on the Dacor (in lieu of tinnermans). I guess this reg will have one more foray in the pool - though I'll still need to address the issue of the diaphragm impinging on the duckbill. Maybe I'll put in a spacer somewhere.
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 10, 2011 22:29:09 GMT -8
Drado,
Don't modify that regulator! It is one of the originals. Instead, wait until another Dial-a-Breath Dacor come up on e-bay, and get that. Then you can compare the two. What I find interesting is that the Original Unit described by Fred Roberts is the "Dacor Model One (Original Unit) Dial-Breath"[/B]. To me this means that your unit is a rather rare one, and looking at the serial number, there were probably less than 5000 of them made. Yours may be the only one currently functioning, and with its original hoses. Fred stated that, [/U], D. Van Nostrand Company, Inc., Prinston, New Jersey, 1967, page79.[/Quote] You may have a unit which was made before Dacor "achieved national distribution." Keep that in mind.
John
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drado
Pro Diver
Posts: 186
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Post by drado on Sept 11, 2011 5:23:26 GMT -8
There was a recent sale on eBay for Dacor Diaphragms (had the main, exhaust, and even HP diaphragm) as well as some tinnermans. Would've brought this reg back to spec and probably upped its value. Actually, I did note the low serial number, and given the general condition, I opted to only get it functional and leave well and good enough alone.
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drado
Pro Diver
Posts: 186
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Post by drado on Sept 11, 2011 5:34:26 GMT -8
Just checked the regulator database: The serial number of the one I have is lower than the one in the museum! I'd really like to know if these are indeed still the original hoses - they really seem very soft for 50+ year old hoses...
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Post by swimjim on Sept 11, 2011 13:46:27 GMT -8
I'm inclined to doubt it. Original Dacor hoses were thick and not terribly flexible. At least after 60 years of service.
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drado
Pro Diver
Posts: 186
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Post by drado on Sept 11, 2011 15:13:47 GMT -8
Interestingly, there are still marks on the ends of the hoses which look like tinnermans made them though. I'll need to post a photo of it soon.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2011 15:48:48 GMT -8
The old hoses I had on my old R4 seemed to have a thick cord or wire running thru it..............like a radiator hose........I thought they were at first.........very stiff............
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 11, 2011 17:37:27 GMT -8
Okay, I remember the old hoses from the Dacor Dial-A-Breath in about 1959. I was trying to decide which regulator to buy used, and had the choice between the Healthways SCUBA, the Dacor Dial-A-Breath and the USD Mistral. I was allowed to take each and try them in the pool at the Salem, Oregon YMCA. At that time they allowed us to go into the family swim with scuba (it was pretty rare at that time too). I was getting a 38 cubic foot tank with it. Well, I almost took the Dacor Dial-A-Breath. I did not like the way the USD Mistral was noisy and the air flowed with a reverberation in the diaphragm when on land. I was young and did not know how well it functioned underwater, even though I did try it out. I really liked how smooth the air flow was through the Healthways SCUBA, and it was my ultimate selection. But I almost selected the Dacor Dial-A-Breath too. Although it had a smaller mouthpiece its air flow was great; it continued to flow even after I took it out of my mouth. Neither of the other two regulators did that. The hoses were a bit shorter than the USD and the Healthways SCUBA (long, blue hoses), and very durable. The mouthpiece was smaller than the Healthways and USD too. I liked the look and feel of the Healthways SCUBA, and the mouthpiece (the Hope-Page system). But the Dacor hoses were extremely durable.
Later, in 1972 I bought a Dacor Dial-A-Breath and used it in Lake Chelan, Washington when I was working as a smokejumper for the summer. I had several dives with it, then went back to school at Oregon State University. I was able to buy the parts for a Dacor R-4, and convert that regulator into an R-4. I think I bought new hoses too, as the mouthpiece was improved (bigger wagon wheel). But the old hoses were still good on that one.
What I'm saying is that it is very possible that those are original hoses for your Dacor Double Diaphragm Original regulator. They were made of very high quality rubber.
But I'm curious about one other thing. What happened to the original diaphragms? They also were made very durably.
John
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drado
Pro Diver
Posts: 186
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Post by drado on Sept 11, 2011 23:32:15 GMT -8
This used to be Fred Morrison's reg. It has traveled quite a long way from New York to find a new home here in the tropics. Its also in deference to his memory that I'm not doing any major mods on it. At any rate, I acquired it sans diaphragms, but if the HP diaphragm is any indication, I too believe that they would've been intact. Anyhow, here's a close up photo of one of the hose ends. It clearly shows the indentations of the previous clamp (smaller indents are from the later zip-tie I used): As can also be seen in this photo, it definitely is not a belted hose: 3rd party hose? Can't be really sure about that, but I can say that it is quite possible that the soft hose are indeed the same vintage as everything else. The mouthpiece of my reg actualy still has very soft rubber on it. Despite the superficial cracks on the rubber, both the hose and mouthpiece are still very, very comfortable. If anyone wants to send me original diaphragms, let me know
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