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Post by SeaRat on Dec 20, 2017 22:16:03 GMT -8
I am starting a thread about a fairly rare regulator, Scubapro's Pilot regulator. It was a breakthrough regulator, which the U.S. Navy took to 1800 feet during their saturation studies. It all started a couple of years ago, when someone suggested I look at Craig's List. I did, and saw local add for two Scubapro Mark VII regulators, one of which had a Pilot second stage. I got excited about it, and talked it impoverished with my wife, Chris. She gave me some good points, and we met the sellers, two college-aged kids, in a local parking lot. I had taken a tank, and in our negotiations I put both regulators on the tank. Both leaked, badly. So I told them that since they leaked, I could not give them a great price, and I think we settled on something like $55 for both of them. Well, this started me looking into this Pilot regulator, and started work on it. I will put this away, and come back tomorrow to describe my trials with this regulator. John
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Post by cnotthoff on Dec 21, 2017 9:06:11 GMT -8
I have 2 Pilots. I dove one of them during our gathering in Monterey this summer. The only comment I got was that one of my buddies had never seen so much shiny chrome on a second stage.
Good Dives, Charlie
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 21, 2017 10:27:25 GMT -8
John, I've always found the Pilot a peculiar reg, in that it does have an exhaust port, it is the most minimal I've ever seen...
I know you like the Air-1 a lot, is the Pilot just a plastic version?
JB
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Post by cnotthoff on Dec 21, 2017 12:08:22 GMT -8
The Pilot second stage is chromed brass while the Air 1 is black plastic. They have a similar configuration with the diaphragm doubling as an exhaust valve, but the similarities end there.
An Air 1 is simply a pneumatically-balanced down-stream second stage. The Pilot is servo-assisted second stage. That means that a small easily-opened valve initiates air-flow from a larger high-flow valve, supplying lots of air with little effort.
I'm sure John will post some pictures and diagrams of his eventually. I need to take the time to set up a photo hosting site other than Photo F*cket to include some of my pictures.
Good Dives, Charlie
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 21, 2017 12:36:07 GMT -8
Charlie is correct, the Pilot is the first in the series, and the AIR I second. The A.I.R. I, as Scubapro designates it, was the one I originally picked up in the late 1970s. It is a really great regulator, but I have been looking at acquiring a Pilot for quite a while. When I saw this one on Craig's List, I thought "WOW, I can finally have one!" I got it home and tore it apart. The thing has something like ten O-rings in it, and so I went about replacing all those I could find to get it to seal up. I then put it back together, and it still leaked. Tore it apart again, lubed everything I could find, again, and put it back together, and the darned thing still leaked like a sieve. Finally, I put it away, then I put it into a box and forgot where that box was. Well, last summer I finally found it again, put it back together again, and it still leaked. Boy, I thought I'd been "had" with this regulator. Then I looked at its schematic, one last time, and found an adjustment at the bottom just below where the main lever sits into the mechanism, and adjusted that nut out about half a turn to a full turn, and IT SEALED UP! I was on Cloud Nine! After about two years, I finally had a Pilot I could take to the open water.
But there was still a problem--the nozzle adjustment. The nozzle streaming air into my mouth right at the top of the regulator can be adjusted, unlike the A.I.R. I. If it's aimed right down the mouthpiece, it shot so much air to my mouth it almost hurt. So I experimented with it in my garage, and turned it back against the case a bit. That helped, but it needed more. So now it's only got enough showing to make for easy breathing, but not to really push it down my lungs.
I took it into the water twice last summer. I'll post more on these dives later.
John
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 21, 2017 12:40:29 GMT -8
Okay, here's my first dive using the Pilot last summer: This is the equipment configuration I had during this dive.
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 21, 2017 14:48:04 GMT -8
Here is my last dive with the Scubapro Pilot, on October 15th (I think--'have to check the calendar):
I still get some of that chatter when I breathe off the Pilot in my garage, but I haven't been in open water since this dive in October.
As you can see, I have already posted these in the thread titled "Dive Logs 2017," but I wanted them here so as to document the Pilot specifically in a researchable thread.
John
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Post by luis on Dec 21, 2017 15:39:17 GMT -8
The Pilot second stage is chromed brass while the Air 1 is black plastic. They have a similar configuration with the diaphragm doubling as an exhaust valve, but the similarities end there. An Air 1 is simply a pneumatically-balanced down-stream second stage. The Pilot is servo-assisted second stage. That means that a small easily-opened valve initiates air-flow from a larger high-flow valve, supplying lots of air with little effort. I'm sure John will post some pictures and diagrams of his eventually. I need to take the time to set up a photo hosting site other than Photo F*cket to include some of my pictures. Good Dives, Charlie Hi Charlie, your description is correct, but your terminology is not what we would normally use. The following are some typical definitions we used in pneumatic and hydraulic controls. Servo valve definition: An electrohydraulic servo valve (EHSV) is an electrically operated valve that controls how hydraulic fluid is sent to an actuator. Servo valves are often used to control powerful hydraulic cylinders with a very small electrical signal. Pilot valve: A pilot valve is a small valve that controls a limited-flow control feed to a separate piloted valve. Typically, this valve controls a high pressure or high flow feed. Note: this are the definition you will find if you just Google those terms. Which are the definitions I am familiar with. Someday I will make some time to service my Pilot, my converted Pilot, Air-1, and many other projects (including my Dacor Nautilus, Farallon DPV, etc). BTW, I also own a Zepher regulator (the only one I have ever seen). According to the designer of the Pilot (Dr. Tony Christianson), the Zepher took the principles of his Pilot design and improved resolved the issues that it had (mostly servicing and maintenance issues). I have a lot of documentation on all the above, but posting it is difficult at the moment. John, If you do a search on ScubaBoard about the Zepher you will find some pictures. This is another project for a future date. I just need to retire from my full time job… JB, You would probably enjoy looking at the copy of the “Consulting Agreement” between Dr. Tony Christianson and Healtways. It is a multi-page document. Added Here is an interesting link: www.scubaboard.com/community/threads/fs-or-ft-a-seapro-zepher-2nd-stage-regulator.471468/#post-7684017
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 21, 2017 15:59:52 GMT -8
John, is it a hesitation/lag, or a judder/shudder? If it's a hesitation/lag, I would be highly suspect of the main-valve-diaphragm. I need to get a new diaphragm for my Tekna: they both use the same type of valve. Our friend in Michigan, DD, was describing the same hesitation/lag in his Tekna, just as I had the same experience. Just trying to make conversation as well as be proactive. BTW, can you show us images yet--I hope? JB
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Post by cnotthoff on Dec 21, 2017 17:22:40 GMT -8
John,
You've figured out a lot of stuff by trial and error. Did I ever send you the Scubapro service procedures for the Pilot?
Good Dives, Charlie
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 21, 2017 20:41:20 GMT -8
John, is it a hesitation/lag, or a judder/shudder? If it's a hesitation/lag, I would be highly suspect of the main-valve-diaphragm. I need to get a new diaphragm for my Tekna: they both use the same type of valve. Our friend in Michigan, DD, was describing the same hesitation/lag in his Tekna, just as I had the same experience. Just trying to make conversation as well as be proactive. BTW, can you show us images yet--I hope? JB Jaybird, I now have a Flickr account, and so here are some more images (I have already posted a few above too). John This is what the Pilot looked like when I first picked it up, mounted on my twin 45s' center post. I first took the housing off and looked inside. It was clean inside. I got this set of gauges too with the Pilot. Charlie, no, I have not received the Pilot repair manual. That would be helpful. John
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seabob
Senior Diver
Instructor Trainer evaluator through all OW and Tech
Posts: 59
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Post by seabob on Dec 22, 2017 11:23:52 GMT -8
I still have some Pilot repair pieces, but I am actually looking for Pilot 2nd. You will find some Pilots are not original as some were "upgraded" but removing some of the internal parts and replacing them with an Air I poppet.
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 24, 2017 13:41:58 GMT -8
Here is the Pilot second stage, completely disassembled: This shows the whole thing, so you can see it in context. And here is the inner chamber/pilot valve assembly. A closer view of the inner chamber and assembly, showing the stainless steel ball for the valve too. John
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 24, 2017 14:40:55 GMT -8
Hmmmmm, so does this use a ball-bearing instead of a diaphragm?
JB
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 27, 2017 17:47:27 GMT -8
No, the diaphragm hooks into the primary lever, which moves the ball bearing which opens the pilot valve. Upon opening, the pilot valve flows a small amount of air, which then opens the air supply valve. Here's how Scubapro described it:
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