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Post by duckbill on Oct 4, 2006 21:40:04 GMT -8
John,
Looking at the low position of the lower cylinder band, is it safe to assume that none of you were using weight belts?
I have a nice pair of brand new USD Aqua-Lung "Professional" fins that look just like those. I've never used them, though, because the heel strap is so doggoned thick and heavy that they hardly have any stretch to them and I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to get them off in a hurry if need be!
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Post by scubadiverbob on Oct 5, 2006 10:32:55 GMT -8
Interesting article ... I guess now a-days they are using Aluminium for non-mag regs. Would have been too expensive in WW2. www.eegs.org/fasttimes/files/FastTIMES_Summer_2005%20web%20edition.pdf. Back then, in WW2, Gold wasn't as costly as it is now. I only know what I've been told by those who were diving long before me ... it's interesting to research this. I really like the pictures. Were they taken with a Calypso Camera?
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Post by SeaRat on Oct 5, 2006 18:05:04 GMT -8
John, Looking at the low position of the lower cylinder band, is it safe to assume that none of you were using weight belts? I have a nice pair of brand new USD Aqua-Lung "Professional" fins that look just like those. I've never used them, though, because the heel strap is so doggoned thick and heavy that they hardly have any stretch to them and I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to get them off in a hurry if need be! You're right, we never used weight belts during our stay at Key West with the U.S. Navy. We didn't need to, as those tanks were pretty well balanced and weighted just a pound or so when empty in salt water. Concerning your USD Aqua-Lung Professional fins, I have used them in Pararescue School, as the USAF issued them for a time, and I hated them. It was like pushing a piece of plywood through the water; they had about the same amount of give to them. I had Swimaster Duck Feet at the time, and loved them. This afternoon, I was taking it easy and watched that wonderful, original movie, The Silent World[/B]. There were a lot of oval masks in that movie (actually, all the masks were the oval masks, circa 1954 or so). There was one mask I really liked, that is no longer around that I know of, called the Squale as I remember. It was distinct in that the strap attached to a slot on the metal glass retaining clamp. If someone has a photo of that, which is not copyrighted, I'd like to see it. Also, the other mask that was quite popular was the USD Champion Deluxe. I do have a copy of the 1977 USD catelog, and this is what it looks like: Wouldn't it be neat to have a yellow USD Champion Deluxe to go with the new yellow hoses? John
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Post by duckbill on Oct 5, 2006 22:11:00 GMT -8
From the 1960 USD catalog: Now, John, I know this isn't in keeping with the oval mask topic, so I apologize for bringing this up again but I just had to share. Here I am teaching my son the correct way to wear a mask when his face isn't in the water (Actually, this was last year, before I even knew there was an issue about it.) I'm also sitting here with a 1968 USD catalog staring me in the face, and you know what?......That guy has HIS mask on his forehead and it doesn't seem to be bothering the babes he has hanging all over him! See?....It just can't be wrong if it attracts babes like that!
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Post by nemrod on Oct 5, 2006 23:45:57 GMT -8
In that next photo it sure looks like they are using Voit Skindiver fins and a variety of UDT fins. I see two fellows with the Skindivers, the one getting in the water is most clear. Pretty sure those are Skindivers, one of my favorites and I still have a pair I use. The rounded toe opening is pretty clear.
James
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Post by SeaRat on Oct 6, 2006 8:53:25 GMT -8
Nemrod, Thank you for the photos of the Squale mask. I once had one, but it disintegrated years ago. This is the mask featured almost exclusively in the book and movie of the same name, The Silent World[/B], by Cousteau. Now, I'm wondering whatever happened to that corrected lens that is shown in the advertisement? You are correct, those are AMF Voit Skin Diver fins. They are not U.S. Navy issue fins, though. Some of us did not like the UDT Duckfeet fins, and elected to wear our own. In my case, I think I wore my original Swimaster Duck Feet fins. Here's two photos for closeups of those divers. Copyright 2006, John C. Ratliff In this photo, take a look at the regulators. One diver, Donald Behrends, has the non-magnetic regulator mounted to his tanks. The other two divers, Robert Cassidy and another diver (possibly Harry Krause), are awaiting their turn to try putting together a puzzle underwater. Again, these were part of my class which graduated on May26, 1967 from the U.S. Naval School for Underwater Swimmers, Key West, Florida. Copyright 2006, John C. Ratliff I have more to say about wearing the mask on your forehead, and it's pretty interesting. What the Navy taught, and what the Navy did, are two different things. More on that later. Now, here's why that one photo was a bit fuzzy. Here's the entire view of the beach I took that day: Copyright 2006, John C. Ratliff Note the buddy team just surfacing to the left, and the safety boat for the swim. I think that there's another diver where that one is, but he's not gotten up yet. We had to stay with ten feet of each other during these swims, and that included exits. By the way, Duckbill, I love that photo of you and your son. Thanks for sharing it. John
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Post by nemrod on Oct 6, 2006 10:36:31 GMT -8
Another thing I like seeing is that they are not dressed out in a full wetsuit and all the diver attire. I have noticed more nd more that divers think they need to wear a suit as opposed to diving in a swimsuit--of course in warm water. We never wore diver suits, usually just a T shirt and swim suit and nowadays divers wear all this garb, hiking boots and fins with springs on them--it is silly.
The Voit Skindiver fins sure could use an update if offered again in the future. Longer and wider and stiffer they would be great. As they were they were fine but not quite always up to strong currents and severe conditions. Something more along the lines of the Voit Viking A66 model. Funny also, the Skindiver was very similar to the Voit Viking A6 (not A66) I have learned and were mostly sold at retail outlets. I am pretty sure mine came from Montgomery Wards. My local hardware store slash feed and seed slash diver store carried the Vikings but they cost more and had a Viking long ship embossed on them instead of the cool Skindiver with spear. They cost more too.
Nemrod
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Post by duckbill on Oct 6, 2006 23:04:28 GMT -8
John, aren't smallmouth bass great! They are SO curious and almost seem friendly. It's hard to believe they are a sport fish when you are diving with them and they follow you all around like little puppies! In keeping with the topic at hand, do you mind if I ask a question here about my favorite oval mask I use on all my dives? I don't know anything about the manufacturer. For all I know, they may still be making these. I've heard that vintage style oval masks are still being made in Japan. This mask is made in Japan by "Kinugawa". Any information about them would be helpful.
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Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Oct 7, 2006 3:12:00 GMT -8
The parent company's website appears to be here, with a timeline: www.kinugawa-rubber.co.jp/KINU1/outline.htmlKinugawa Corporation's range of diving equipment, branded as "AQA", is showcased at: www.kinugawa-net.co.jp/The site is, of course, in Japanese, but letting the mouse hover over the links brings up a web address which is intelligible in English. Although the fins page has some nice classic designs, the mask page only has models in newer styles. A while ago the mask range included Compa and Aquapro classic oval masks, but they don't seem to be there on the site any more. However, another AQA page illustrates the oval masks they have made over the years: www.kinugawa-net.co.jp/i-company.htmlThe company also makes the Gull line in underwater equipment: www.gull-msc.co.jpThis range again includes some classic fin designs in a good variety of colours, including such rarities as white, but the mask page again only shows newer styles. There appears to be a company selling Gull products in Korea and their site features Gull oval masks: www.gullsports.co.kr/cart/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1151980847One of the masks has a pale blue coloured skirt: www.gullsports.co.kr/cart/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1132633939Maybe these are discontinued lines that the company still stocks. Gull diving gear is only available in the Far East, in countries such as Malaysia, Taiwan and Thailand. I've tried emailing orders to Japanese retailers but have never received a reply. Hope this helps.
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Post by SeaRat on Oct 7, 2006 8:03:51 GMT -8
Wow DavidRichieWilson, That is a great bunch of links. Duckbill, I clicked on the second link down: www.kinugawa-net.co.jp/I then went into the links, starting at the bottom. I went through the bottom two rows, thon hit the link in the second row from the top, with two links in the table. On the right there is a link (four Japanese characters), which I clicked on and got oval masks, and in the upper right it says AQA 2006. The one that looks like yours (without the yellow circle on the lens), looks like the Aqua Pro. So it appears that this one is still being manufactured. I then clicked on the second link, and found this: www.gull-msc.co.jp/In here, there is a "shop list" at: www.gull-msc.co.jp/shop/index.htmlThese are apparently the various shops in Japan which carry their products. If someone wants these oval masks, maybe they could get in touct via e-mail with one of these shops and get them to purchase the mask, and send it back to use in the USA. Here is the top link to the Asahikawa Dive House: www.adivehouse.co.jp/You don't know where these topics will go when you start a thread like this. We are getting some amazing history on one of the oldest of the vintage diving products, the oval mask. John
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Post by DavidRitchieWilson on Oct 7, 2006 8:40:55 GMT -8
Glad to help, John. I was in Japan in summer 2000 and spotted some AQA gear in the shops in Kyoto when I was there, but sadly no Gull equipment. I would be interested to know if anybody manages to order any Kinugawa/AQA/Gull gear by email - as I said in my message, I've tried but got no reply when I sent messages to several Japanese stockists. There have been messages on ScubaBoard forum posted by people who have had a similar experience when ordering Gull equipment. I suspect that the oval masks on the AQA site are no longer available as there are no prices for them and they aren't reproduced on the mask page at www.kinugawa-net.co.jp/i-mask.htmlwhere each mask is priced in Yen. The Japanese are certainly interested in vintage gear if the following site is anything to go by: www2.divers.ne.jp/antique_scuba/There are some great pictures of oval masks at home.a03.itscom.net/koda/AntiqueScuba/10_DivingGear/Mask/Mask.htmwith a young lady at the bottom of the page dressed in a classic wetsuit, modelling the gear! David
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Post by duckbill on Oct 7, 2006 22:13:02 GMT -8
Thankyou very much, David! I had no idea whether anyone would have any information on this mask, and you seem to have it all lined up and ready to go! Great links. To install the Japanese and Korean language packs, I am being prompted to insert my Windows 2000 CD, which I don't have. But, I was able to find my way around the links, and, yes John, mine most closely resembles the "Aqua Pro". Thankyou for pointing me in that direction. There are two things about mine which differ from the "Aqua Pro" shown though: 1) The 18-8 stainless lense ring on mine locks together with built in tabs, whereas the Aqua Pro has a bolt and nut at the top. 2) Mine does have the yellow ring, as you noticed, AND "TEMPERED GLASS" in English! Go figure. Apparently this mask did hit some English speaking country at one time or another. Now I wonder about these differences, and when the Aqua Pro made it's debut. It would seem to me that the bolt and nut arrangement would predate the tab fastening, but the bolt and nut fastened mask seems to be their current product. If I could read the text in English, I'd know for sure. Oh, mystery! Thanks for the excellent information. If only my mask could talk! Then I could have had some company on my 2 3/4 hour solo river dive/snorkel earlier today. The neat thing is that I found an old 40+' sunken boat which appears to be wooden in construction, and several 1930s-40s cars, or what's left of them (such as the "aroogah" horn I found near one of them)!
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Post by SeaRat on Oct 7, 2006 22:37:59 GMT -8
Duckbill, We need to straighten this thing out with the MOF stuff. When I was mentioning that we were not allowed to do it in the Underwater Swimmers School, I meant just that. I now have documented proof that the U.S. Navy also does not adhere to this, and does at times have a MOF* situaton: This is in a submarine escape hatch, so I guess it could be argued that no wave could dislodge it. But what about this: Both images are from the book, Business of Diving[/B], by John M. Kennedy. Book Division, Gulf Publishing, Houston, TX, 1972, pages 195-196. It could be that they owed their commander 25 pushups when he saw this publication, but I don't think so. I don't feel bad about copying these, as they are "Official U.S. Navy Photos" that the book's authors got free from the U.S. Navy. I think the bottom photo was from the San Diego area (or at least on the West Coast) from the barnacles on the rocks. Duckbill, I do like the small mouth bass, but that one was too big for the footer (it kinda dominated). These redsided shiners are better for this purpose. Unfortunately, the small mouth bass is not native to Oregon rivers and streams, and it is there because fishermen stocked them (illegally) for their fishing. They eat the salmon and steelhead smolt in the spring, which makes them unwanted. I found out about a pastor who visited our church who enjoyed bass fishing, and I told him about the ones in the Clackamas, and told him exactly where they were. I came back a couple weeks later, and it seem that there were fewer small mouth bass, but then it was getting colder too, so they may have headed downstream into the Willamette and Columbia Rivers. John *MOF = Mask On Forhead
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Post by Captain on Oct 8, 2006 6:17:01 GMT -8
Both the Squale and the Champion were available with the curved Vista Vision face plate. I have a blue Champion Vista Vision mask in the original USD box. USD called it the "Cyclops". Compared to my favorite mask, the original USD Atlantis the field of vision is about equal between the two.
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Post by pearldiver on Oct 8, 2006 8:12:15 GMT -8
I love the photos... thanks a bunch for the smiles out here in Northern IL. Hey John, Do you think I could use a couple of the shots of you guys at the museum? I'd give you credit etc. for them and keep them copyrighted and whatever else we need to do. Those are super cool. Gayle
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