¿Spare Air?

[scubadiverbob]

Got to go.

My DAAM is in almost brand new condition. Sure they would accept a photo with it?

[luis]

The picture is for the ID card; therefore I think it is supposed to be a current picture showing your face. A mask on the forehead and double hose would be great, but IMO any variation would do fine. I used a picture were my hood was pulled back so my face was visible.

[swimjim]

A head & shoulders shot is best. I have my USD Oval on my forehead and my Da's hoses around my neck in mine.

Jim

[Terry]

The only other requirement in regards to the picture on your NAVED card is that yours cannot look better than Searats ;D (ha ha), or mine of course ! Welcome to the vintage community!
Terry

[Broxton Coalition]

do i need spare air to join naved? the j-valve is down, time is short, help me out vintage brothers, which thread do i turn to?
mike

[Terry]

Hi Mike:
To answer your question: No; you don't need a Spare Air to join NAVED. In fact you do not have to have any type of alternate air source to join NAVED. Many of us who dive vintage dive strictly vintage; no redundant or alternate air source of any type. Back in the 60's when many of us learned to dive this is the way it was because there were no BC's, Spare Air's or any types of alternate air sources such as the octopus reg which is so common today. Things are different now, and all of the certification agencies teach todays diver to use some type of alternate or redundant air source, and it is a required piece of equipment for each diver by those who offer dive charters. As for NAVED; it's up to you the individual diver and what YOU feel comfortable with. By now after reading some of the posts on the VSS and VDH message boards I'm sure that you've noticed that there are many opinions of what equipment of this type (if any) should be used. There are many of us who like to dive strictly vintage, and those of us who dive with a mixture of vintage and modern equipment. I myself do both. In the past year I have purchased the Phoenix Nozzle which I use on my USD AquaMaster DA which brings this great vintage reg into the 21st century by having the ability to attach an SPG and LP inflator hose for my BC, and an LP hose for my drysuit inflator if I choose. As for my Voit Navy; that's my pride and joy, and I keep it STRICTLY VINTAGE; however I do use it with an SPG that has a banjo adaptor; which is vintage. I hope this helps, and best of luck and Safe Diving To You with your venture into Vintage Divinig; diving in it's simplest form the way it was meant to be. Just my opinion! Terry Stevens

[nemrod]

Nothing will get you banned faster that showing up with a Spare Sir, since you asked a non serious question, your non serious answer is that by the "Man" law, 1007689.12, any MAN seen with a Spare Air is to be questioned as to which "team" they are playing for. Dependent upon suitable answer to the Man law question, per NAVED 32.78 and bylaw 16, chaper 8, subsection 102.33.22 and by "Law of asking a Stupid Question" and the powers thus invested in me by section 10.00 and subsections 5 and 6 parts 1, 2 and 3 and 4, the answer is;

No

Nemrod

[nemrod]

scubadiverbob said:

Got to go.

My DAAM is in almost brand new condition. Sure they would accept a photo with it?

Loan me that DA, I guarantee it will be acceptable for photo fodder when I am done with it. I would mail it to PadI but I imagine they would turn me into the Homeland SS and then whatever would you guys do with me sitting in jail with no computer to provide smarta-- answers to your inane questions .

Nem

[JES]

In an effort to redirect this thread back to discussions regarding spare air, if you are interested in or have questions regarding NAVED please ask or post them in the following thread: NAVED ;D

[duckbill]

Well, the OP, Charlie, asked about NAVED. I figured Joe started the separate NAVED thread so the topic here could return to spare-air.

Charlie, I hope you will consider joining NAVED if vintage SCUBA equipment diving interests you.

[cnotthoff]

Well, my only vintage gear is the stuff I started diving with in 1972. I sold my AMF safety vest to a kayaking buddy, but still have my USD Deep Star reg (single hose).

These discussions have changed my thinking about the reliability of vintage regs. I started thread by comparing vintage scuba gear to my 1929 Model A. John's comment about simpler design reminded me that my next car was a Fiat 124 Sport Coupe. Those of you who know what the letters F I A T stand for, realize why I sometimes wanted the Ford back.

I'm not sure how I'd work out communication with the surface if I traded my AGA Mask for a Royal Aquamaster. Before someone goes off on why I'd want to talk to folks up there, it's only when the work I do requires it. Yesterday I was dealing with a rat's nest of crab line where entanglement was a real possibility. A diving engineer I used to work with told me of diving (during the 60's) with the radio setup that WWII flight crews used to communicate (the kind with mic attached to your throat). I'm not sure how that worked underwater. any of you ever hear of that? Damn, now I'm off on a tangent again.

Oh well, not all who wander are lost.

Charlie

[Captain]

I think we need to seperate vintage diving from double hose diving. Vintage is as it was done 40 years ago before BC's, octos. ponys, etc came into general use. Double hose diving is just that using a double hose regulator and whatever other gear you chose. I do both but in neither do I carry a pony, spare air or other redundancy. I also have never had an octo attached to any of my regulators. The last charter dive I was on was in 1997 in Cozumel and I had no octo and no mention was made of it.
I pretty much consider equipment failure as a .001 probability, at least on my gear.

How much extra air is enough. Is it 6 or 60 cubic feet or a surface supplied hose. To me the main reason for someone to carry extra air is if something happens that prevents you from surfacing before you run out, entanglment being the main hazard. If badly entangled than only the surface supplied hose may be enough.

This was in a recent issue of DAN Alert Diver magazine

1 Equipment failure/malfunction 30% (If it really is that high I would give up diving and so should you.)
2 Procedural/training related 26 % (exactly what the hell does that mean?)
3 Air management error 19% ( the BIGGIE)
4 Other causes 15% ( maybe some had their hoses cut by Mike Nelson.)
5 No responce to question 7% ( I guess they never lived to tell about it.)
6 Entrapment 4%

Frankly I fine it hard to believe equipment failure was the highest percentage. I just haven't seen it in personal experiences.
To me 2, 3 and 4 are one and the same, failure to monitor air supply. Put those 3 together and it's 60%. Entrapment is way down at 4%. Maintain your equipment, monitor your air supply and avoid the unlikely entrapment and you won't need all the other stuff.

[swimjim]

Captain, I am sorry to say that if you sit around a place like Lake Wazee or a place like Gilboa quarry for instance and observe the goings on, these numbers begin to make sense. Heck, just read basic discussions on scary board some evening. I sense that some of these people got certified without cracking a text book. What can you expect from people that insist that merely having your mask on your fore head is a sign of distress?
I would put my risk of equipment failure about where you do. Of course, I maintain my own gear and I understand fully how it works. I also was trained 30 years ago and the basic course I took was a lot different then what they do today.

Jim

[Captain]

Here is just about a totally bullet proof vintage rig as you can get..

Mistral on twin 1/2 "pipe thread 72's with 1/2" double manifold.
Only 1 "O" ring failure point, no pressurized hoses.
You can dive it to the NDL's and never have to worry about running out unless your RMV is equal to a vacuum truck.

[cnotthoff]

DAN puts out a report every year that includes those numbers, but also a brief description of each fatality. The following excerpt from the 2003 report may explain why "Equipment Failure" ranks so high.

"Experienced dive instructor with FAULTY EQUIPMENT and overweighted, returned to surface to decompress, holding tank in arms.
Cause of Death Drowning due to air embolism, insufficient air"

"The diver was wearing a drysuit but it was improperly configured and the quick release valve for the integrated weights was inoperable."

Please don't ask me what an integrated weight release valve is. If you're familiar with this product that boomed in the 90's (BC's with integrated weights), you know there are many different ways that manufacturers release weights. Do Watergill Atpaks qualify as vintage? Most of the problems with Atpaks were user errors.

Anyway, this incident is considered an equipment failure/malfunction. Diving with unfamiliar improperly configured gear is not the gear's fault.

You guys are right on the money. Divers who rely on their equipment (old or new) need to be responsible for its condition and operation. That's what I learned 36 years ago, and I try to teach new divers today.

Good Dives,

Charlie