jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
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Post by jviss on Sept 21, 2007 4:33:09 GMT -8
Wondering if there's a market for new double hose regulators - please VOTE, as well as reply with comments.
Thanks,
jv
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Post by Broxton Carol on Sept 21, 2007 4:57:56 GMT -8
While I have all the stuff Ill ever need, I think that there are new divers who would like the style, and simplicity of a two hose reg. Something so simple you can go through it on the kitchen table to tune it up and do maintenance yourself, and have an inventory of spare parts for. Just like the Mustang automobile that is a near likeness to the 67 model of years ago, it has got a lot of buyers. Who knows? Im for it though!
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Post by SeaRat on Sept 21, 2007 8:08:03 GMT -8
I have a lot of regulators, but if a new one came out that worked with my doubles, then I would probably go for it.
I almost bought the New Mistral, but it did not fit on my doubles at all. It was made so that it only fit on a single tank system, or one with the yolk attachment up instead of down. Then, when I did get it on the doubles (upside-down center section), it was uncomfortable on my back (pushed against my vertebrae).
My problem is that I have a Trieste II and a Hydro Twin, and both of those regs are very nice with my doubles. They also have a nice, flat surface that fits on my back and do not hurt to wear.
John
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olkev
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by olkev on Sept 21, 2007 9:10:30 GMT -8
I'm kinda in the same boat as others. I have a Royal AquaMaster. That regulator is kinda hard to beat, PERIOD. I'm getting a banjo fitting soon and the port plug/nut to attach LP hoses. If the question boils down to "Should US Divers/Aqualung put the Mentor on the market?" the answer is definitely YES.
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Dale
Pro Diver
Posts: 141
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Post by Dale on Sept 21, 2007 12:03:55 GMT -8
I'd love to see the Mentor on the market, but at a reasonable price. I thought the new Mistral was an unreasonable price.
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Post by scubadiverbob on Sept 21, 2007 21:08:09 GMT -8
Nemrod has the right idea; but, I'd like a screw on mothpiece, like the new mistral. That was the best part of the new mistral design, in my opinion. Get rid of the hose clamps. A mushroom valve, like the R-4 has, would be a definate plus. The Dacor R-4 was a great regulator; just didn't have a LP port. Could you imagine a R-4 with a pheonix nozzle and a silicone mouthpiece like the new mistral?
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Post by scubadiverbob on Sept 21, 2007 21:13:47 GMT -8
jv,
You going to build one?
Robert
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Post by duckbill on Sept 21, 2007 21:41:51 GMT -8
What the others have said...plus...
Keep the profile low as was mentioned. All the modern variations push the forward face of the regulator past the plane of the wall on a steel 72. It should be possible to have HP and LP ports built into a design and still have the reg sit within the boundary of the tank O.D. and not sticking you in the back.
Of course, a balanced 2-stage is the ticket.
Maybe combine the two thoughts above. Have it able to use the standard 1" x 1.5" hoses, but have a mouthpiece that screws on and off an adapter that clamps on the hose. Actually, in the long haul, 1" x 1" hoses are probably readily available into the future thanks to SCBA firefighting equipment. Maybe go that way instead?
Mushroom exhaust for sure. Standard, readily available size only.
To bring it into the 21st century, how about a HP-chamber actuated voice synthesizer in a female voice calmly telling you, "Your air is getting low. bing...bing...bing...Your air is getting low...600 psi, you Hunk..." or somesuch.
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Post by duckbill on Sept 22, 2007 0:18:13 GMT -8
That's true. A modern double hose regulator might as well be used with a modern tank and backplate.
With a 7.25" diameter tank, the new Mistral sticks into the back a whopping inch-and-a-half! The Phoenix is better, protruding only about half an inch.
An 8" diameter tank sits about flush with the Phoenix, but the new Mistral still sticks out by over an inch!
It would just be nice if any newly designed regulator were to be made no deeper, front to back, than the Phoenix, especially if the buyer doesn't want to be unnecessarily limited on the backpack or backplate he can use with it. The new Mistral fell flat on this point alone!
(The above measurements/calculations are based on a valve with the o-ring face .4" from the axis of the cylinder.)
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Post by JES on Sept 22, 2007 3:32:10 GMT -8
.... My problem is that I have a Trieste II and a Hydro Twin, and both of those regs are very nice with my doubles. They also have a nice, flat surface that fits on my back and do not hurt to wear. John Don't forget that the Trieste II is much smaller then other double hose regulators and also has both an HP & LP port.
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jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
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Post by jviss on Sept 22, 2007 5:41:50 GMT -8
Wow, this is a great discussion.
I'm not clear on the "DSV" - Nemrod, can you explain the function, and need for this?
Mouthpiece clamps - I thought clamps added to the appeal. I don't like hte ratcheting ones, I think they are less secure than clamps with screws. I'm not familiar with screw-on hoses.
I'm also not familiar with the hose terminology - 1x1 and 15.x1 - can someone please explain?
I guess much of this would depend on what this would sell for - but that's another poll, I guess!
Thanks, keep it coming, please!
jv
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jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
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Post by jviss on Sept 22, 2007 10:04:31 GMT -8
What dimensions do "1.5x1" refer to?
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jviss
Pro Diver
Posts: 209
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Post by jviss on Sept 22, 2007 14:57:43 GMT -8
The 1.5 inch is the opening diameter of the hose at the mouthpiece and the 1.0 inch is the opening diameter at the regulator. The hoses are thus 1.5X1.0X some length--which I did not specify. Pretty basic stuff. As you know this is the size hose used for most all USD and Voit regulators, not all manufacturers used that size hose, some were 1.0X1.0X--- and others may exist as well. There is a lot more to bringing a new regulator to market than wishing and hoping. Good luck. Nemrod I know, I've been in product development for most of my engineering career. I appreciate all of the information you've supplied on this. What I find interesting is that a new double hose may be one of those odd things that can't be justified in conventional business terms, but just might be a niche hit. I would certainly love to see Aqualung offer the Mentor, and at a reasonable price. I disappointed that they don't want to offer and support the Conshelf XIV for the consumer market, while continuing to service the military market.
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Post by Voice of Gomez on Sept 22, 2007 17:25:50 GMT -8
I just voted for one with a hp and lp port. Also a computer screen and keyboard would be nice too... That way I can read VSS when Im down there, wherever that is..............................
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Post by luis on Sept 22, 2007 18:18:31 GMT -8
Even the Mentor is old, when did they actually make them? I don't know but I seriously doubt they are still made. So the likelyhood of them offering it to us is about equal to a comet hitting my house tonight. Well, maybe not quite that bad but close. Weird though, cloths have gone retro (hip hugger jeans for example), cars have gone retro (Mustang, Toyota FJ, Dodge Challenger, new Camero) boat makers call there new boats classics, black powder is in with hunters as is archery, why not a retro movement in scuba you might ask. Well thee is one and we are it. The rest of the scuba world is to big into pretending to be something they are not to even notice trends until some guru comes along to tell them what is in and what is out. I tell you what, if there were a modern SeaHunt movie and the dude used a double hose, the impact would be huge. As to producing new double hose, yes, there would be a niche market but you have to first determine what it is that is important to the product, how to keep the character and play to the strengths of the design and minimize the weakensses (surface freeflow, position sensitivity). N There were only 130 Mentors produced and I think that they were all produced around 2002. See this link to Ryan web site for more info: www.flashbackscuba.com/museum/Aqualung%20Mentor/Aqualung%20Mentor.htmlIt is interesting that Scubapro just introduced the G250V second stage. The "V" stands for vintage. It is supposed to be the same second stage they introduce in the 80's to replace the Metal adjustable / Balanced adjustable (109/156). They are returning to a second stage with a metal demand valve main body / barrel. At least it is one good step in the right direction.
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