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Post by VintageDiverMN on Jan 20, 2005 8:35:13 GMT -8
I will stick with my old double hose regulators, vintage diving and modern diving are two different sports.
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Post by nemrod on Jan 20, 2005 11:08:20 GMT -8
I am not impressed with the new design.
What I would want in a modern double hose---
-Smaller box -Silicone hoses and valves -mouthpiece with replaceble bite -Pilot/servo valve boosted second stage with user adjustable sensitivity -Triple chrome plated stainless steel contruction -Two HP and at least three or four LP ports -convertable to DIN or yoke -useable at up to 5000psi and with nitrox
Nemrod
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Post by Bryan on Jan 20, 2005 11:25:20 GMT -8
You are joking right ?
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Post by nemrod on Jan 21, 2005 1:00:06 GMT -8
Actually no, which part seems like a joke? Since we are vintage we tend to think of double hoses as vintage only. There is no reason a modern 21st century double hose could not be designed. Using a servo valve like the Tekna, Poseidin, Omega would allow a much smaller main diaphram. Might even be able to make the hose in a hose concept finally viable using the inner hose as the main delievery and the outer hose for demand sensing. The "box" could be much smaller than our current vintage favorites. Just because we would still dive our vintage units does not reduce my desire to also dive modern with a modern double hose unit. Since I am not DIR their considerations on it would be unimportant to me with the long hose buddy concept and all that. As to stainless and silicone, yes it cost more but if the unit could remain serviceable for a lifetime then the extra cost would be acceptable. Vintage is great but it has it's limits, a modern double hose unit would not have those limits. Can anyone provide the work force required by a Royal Aquamaster vs a modern single hose unit---graphed? Nemrod
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Post by JES on Jan 21, 2005 4:42:56 GMT -8
This new regulator may not be vintage but I think USD has developed a very nice modern double hose regulator that will fill a niche in the market and probably be quite profitable for them. As Bryan mentioned thanks go out to Lisa for the outstanding translation and also to Ryan for the outstanding links. I'm interested to see if it really finds it's way to the US market by February.
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Post by Bryan on Jan 21, 2005 6:06:54 GMT -8
With it's multiple LP and HP ports the diver can connect the full range of peripheral elements: octopus, submersible pressure gage,BC and dry suit inflators. The Mistral first stage can be supplied with either a 232 bar yoke fitting a DIN 300 bar fitting or with Nitrox/02 M26x2 to allow the full range of configuration.....From the U.S. Divers catalog...... It is clear from the pictures that the mouthpiece is replaceable, the body is significantly smaller in diameter than the original and is made from a nylon/fiberglass/carbon fiber material. Since it is 02 compatable I am sure we are not talking run of the mill rubber hoses The breathing curve shown puts it in the above average catagory for ventilation rate and somewhere between good and very good on overall work of breathing using the guidelines from Rodales and Sport Divers magazine regulator performance reviews. There is always room for improvement but I think they did a pretty nice job with this one. Where do you get 5000 psi cylinders filled ?
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Post by justleesa on Jan 21, 2005 7:53:39 GMT -8
You're very welcome guys ;D
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Post by nemrod on Jan 21, 2005 11:54:31 GMT -8
Where do you get 5000 psi cylinders filled ?
Well, I have seen places that can do it but my concern is for the future. If such a unit as I described were available it would probably be at a premium price, 1000 dollars easily. It would be sold as the ultimate "expert" regulator. If it were built to last a lifetime with cartridge replacement of consumeables it might still be ticking when 5000 psi air comes around. A few years ago 3500psi was not common, DIN was very uncommon, things change. I remember once we had vinyl records and I bought the finest record player made! Within a year vinyl was gone! Things change! If the dive industry was performance driven instead of style driven it could happen in mere months. I remember when NO air was available, 5000psi?--no problem. Nemrod
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Post by JES on Jan 21, 2005 13:55:17 GMT -8
If such a unit as I described were available it would probably be at a premium price, 1000 dollars easily... Nemrod Nemrod, I'm betting your "perfect" regulator would be much more expensive than $1000.00. The Mistral is projected to cost $900.00 and with all of the features that you mention the cost would probably be pushing $2000 or more, well out of the reach of most.
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Post by VintageDiverMN on Jan 21, 2005 14:51:35 GMT -8
I would be surprised if USD makes any money on this regulator. Who is going to buy it? Most divers use single hose reg., do you think they are going to go out and buy one for $900. I don't think so. But then I'm a vintage diver and not interested in what the dive companys put out. Maybe next year USD or some other company will come out with a 4 hose reg. that will breath for you. Lets stick with our vintage diving and not get side tracked by shiny new pennies.
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Post by Gomez' echo on Jan 21, 2005 15:47:39 GMT -8
While the idea is interesting, it isn't vintage. I, for one, am interested in what used to be. A reliving of the past, maybe our lost youth. I will dive, most of the time, with my modern gear, but will also enjoy the excitement and satisfaction of breathing my Snark III or Voit 50 Fathom. I hope USD sells the new Mistral, so that the "wanta bes" might use it and let the original units be had by us vintage fans. Now everybody can play Mike Nelson (if they even recognize that name) and still use their BCD and SPG and, I almost forgot, the octopus. It is a wonder that we ever survived scuba diving without knowing what an alternate air source was.
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Post by nemrod on Jan 21, 2005 16:50:48 GMT -8
"The Mistral is projected to cost $900.00 and with all of the features that you mention the cost would probably be pushing $2000 or more, well out of the reach of most"
Maybe, maybe not. We live in a time when people spend 60,000 dollars for a Suburbon SUV, 2 bucks for gas, 250,000 dollars for a house (near average or under in most areas), a 1500 or 2000 dollar reg--if it really were to be the Ultimate breathing machine---no problem. BUT, it would have to be the ultimate breathing machine with no equal in order to sell at that price. Such a machine could be constructed with dual breathing circuits for redundancy--built in.
As to being side tracked from vintage!!!--that is a laugh--thanks to you guys I have been sidetracked BY vintage. My basement looks like a dive shop from the 60s and I now currently own 5 double hose regs that work!! Thanks alot!!!! my wife thanks all of you as well!!!! Aside from some odd or end my newest piece of dive gear is mid 80s at best. Vintage!!!, that is all I have thus my hankering for something new but with the flavor of vintage, the solidity of vintage but modern performance.
Mistral, hey, I hear what your saying but I also get the feeling that you do most of your diving in lakes. (not intended as a cut)There are times I have been caught down current from where I need to be in ocean currents and that is when having good high performance equipment comes into play. I would not feel outgunned with this new Royal Aquamaster I have now in my hands or some of my other vintage stuff as long as I remember that I too am fast becoming vintage and don't push luck. Mike mine vintage!!! Nemrod
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Post by nemrod on Jan 21, 2005 17:05:50 GMT -8
I know I am long winded but let me add one more thing for Mistral. The reason I quit diving my original Mistral regulator was because in the mid 70s I was getting into trouble on dive charters becasue of my equipment being old and out of date! Thing is it was in good working order. I am certain that this condition still exists in most of the diving world because I have been "given a talking too" by several dive masters for my current supposedly obsolete gear from the mid 80s. Sooo, I guess the point of a new double hose of any sort and new "vintage type gear" would be that I most likely would actually get to use it on a dive boat or charter etc rather than it collecting dust and mold. It is fun to play around in the pool with this stuff but if you cannot actually use it then what good is it? Nemrod
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Post by Danny D on Jan 21, 2005 18:03:41 GMT -8
So Excited !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by John C Ratliff on Jan 21, 2005 18:20:35 GMT -8
Well, I for one will probably get one. I am very interested in the possibility of a chest-mounted double hose, and am at the point of trying to do so with my old Mistral. But this design is intrigueing, and possibly pretty versitile. Just think how this would work with my UDS-1, using the UDS-1 first stage and the new Mistral second stage. There are all sorts of combinations possible here, and I think Aqualung would have a hit.
Besides, I may in retirement in a few years want to train others on the double-hose diving style. If I get back into instruction, it will be neat to have a commercially available, brand spankin' new double hose regulator. We could go through the entire double-hose regulator development in a specialized course. And students new to diving could get the heritage of the old-style double hose, and yet have a new one to dive. This, I think, will be a plus for the diving community as a whole.
SeaRat
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