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Post by ffdiver on May 6, 2016 5:31:16 GMT -8
What support would you be looking from a dive shop
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 6:33:39 GMT -8
As a vintage snorkeller who doesn't "do SCUBA", it's my "vintage diving" ambition to ensure that today's fins don't all have plastic blades and that today's masks don't all have silicone or PVC skirts. For me, the vintage era never really stopped, because advanced countries such as Japan still manufacture excellent-quality traditional all-rubber full-foot fins because divers there still prefer them to tupperware versions, while Mexico and Russia continue to manufacture decent traditional oval dive masks with blue rubber skirts that haven't changed since the middle of the last century. I've even managed to buy (via eBay) a brand new Russian L-shaped snorkel sporting a blue rubber mouthpiece. As for exposure suits, there is always the all-American Hydroglove drysuit, modelled on the So Lo Marx's Skooba-"totes" made in Ohio during the 1950s and 1960s. David, Wear did you buy the rubber foot fins? online or by luck finding them on eBay? |
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Post by nikeajax on May 6, 2016 8:07:33 GMT -8
It's the shops that may have a problem with vintage gear and are giving you a hard time. Most dive shops would have little interest in supporting vintage dive gear for the simple reason of revenue. Shops survive on selling NEW gear and training. So there is little interest on the dive shop owners part to encourage the use of equipment that largely is only found used. Sadly we ( for the most part ) live in a cheap plastic addicted world that is getting more and more used to buying the next generation of techno do dad every few years. BRAVO SIR!  Unfortunately, dive shops are the only interface we most of us have with orgs. like PADI: now that I'm thinking of it, it must be the distributors who spread the disinformation. One of the first things these diving orgs. teach is NEVER open up a regulator: to me, this is like saying don't open up the hood of your car. Yes, perhaps the average person doesn't know what they are looking at, just as the average person doesn't know what's under the hood, but it's my opinion that they purposely scare people so they don't find out that nearly all these regs. use technology that dates back to the early 1960's. Another thing that people get fed is that if they are old they are dangerous: my retort is, "Were they dangerous when they were originally used?" "Well... I still don't trust it!" "It's just been serviced, new o-rings and the diaphragm is silicone, exactly the way a dive shop would do..." "I still don't trust it: just use a new one!" "Yes but my Scuba Star uses the same internals as you 'new' Cressi..." "I still don't trust it..." JB |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 9:20:22 GMT -8
Unfortunately, dive shops are the only interface we most of us have with orgs. like PADI: now that I'm thinking of it, it must be the distributors who spread the disinformation. One of the first things these diving orgs. teach is NEVER open up a regulator: to me, this is like saying don't open up the hood of your car. JB It all circles around to money. If I recall it was 76 when I did a scuba class. D.I.T... Yeah, never heard of them, right? Seattle based commercial dive school. Their "basic" course included learning decompression theory and how to use the tables. Doing a deco dive was not part of the class though. At the time it was thought good to teach a little more than what was needed or required. Also at that time, should you have bought a viking dry suit, it would have come with a VERY informative manual on how to replace all the latex seals. NOT any more. Now you have to send them to a "certified" repair shop for new seals. At one point Viking would not even sell the seals to anyone without having gone through there class. That may have changed, but I doubt it. So it is a money factor. You can not service or repair your gear, only the shops. Money. Now granted there are people out there that do not have the mind set or skill set to do there own repairs. It is 100% in there best interest to hire the work done. Dive agencies cater to money. They cater to the masses. As many of the masses as they possibly can. This is one of many reasons why the basic scuba class is now a 127 step ( yes, I embellished that a bit. Maybe closer to 118 ) program with cool buttons, patches and rewards for every few hundred dollars spent. ( Golly gosh, I just got my Cert to apply anti fog without aid from a dive master! I hear there is a new special class for the advanced few that can use there own spit. I'm signing up for that one as soon as I can afford it! ) Anyhow, no wonder they don't want you looking inside your regulator. A parting thought. What is more complex, your regulator or the car you drive? No matter what part for your car you go and buy, have you EVER had the store clerk ask you if your certified to install it? Ever? |
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Post by nikeajax on May 6, 2016 9:28:37 GMT -8
A parting thought. What is more complex, your regulator or the car you drive? No matter what part for your car you go and buy, have you EVER had the store clerk ask you if your certified to install it? Ever? BWAHAHAHAHAHA--SNORT!  JB |
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Post by tomcatpc on May 6, 2016 10:12:42 GMT -8
My very first car was a 1967 Ford Mustang with a straight-six 200 engine. I learned how to work on cars real quick and it was as no where near as difficult as I thought. Fast forward 20 years later and I got my US Divers Mistral back together and up and running with little drama.
Granted, working on some of the single hose regs has stressed me a bit, mainly because I don't have the correct tools.
Not sure if any of that all made sense?, just wanted to share something...
I'm lucky in that I know of two dive shops close by who are "open-minded" about using vintage gear. The one shop does sell a bit of used kit and I've found a few treasures there. Mainly my 1960's US Divers Calypso-J reg.
On the other hand is a childhood friend of my who owns a shop about two hours from me and gives me crap about using vintage gear...go figure.
I guess I just like the look of the older gear? Plus when I was considering taking up diving I thought that using vintage gear would be "cheaper"? The jury is still out on that claim LOL!!!
Mark
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 10:55:15 GMT -8
I'm lucky in that I know of two dive shops close by who are "open-minded" about using vintage gear. The one shop does sell a bit of used kit and I've found a few treasures there. Mainly my 1960's US Divers Calypso-J reg. I'm sure showing up with an old US Divers Calypso would get you nothing but funny looks. Yet is was good enough for the 1000 foot Keller dive. I'm sure if that was mentioned, you would just get more funny looks. Who's Keller? |
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Post by technidiver on May 6, 2016 11:31:00 GMT -8
I'm lucky in that I know of two dive shops close by who are "open-minded" about using vintage gear. The one shop does sell a bit of used kit and I've found a few treasures there. Mainly my 1960's US Divers Calypso-J reg. I'm sure showing up with an old US Divers Calypso would get you nothing but funny looks. Yet is was good enough for the 1000 foot Keller dive. I'm sure if that was mentioned, you would just get more funny looks. Who's Keller? Hahahahahahaha! I'm planning to that to a local dive shop, and I want to see their faces and hear all of the questions and comments that they might say. TD |
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Post by DavidRitchieWilson on May 6, 2016 11:35:38 GMT -8
As a vintage snorkeller who doesn't "do SCUBA", it's my "vintage diving" ambition to ensure that today's fins don't all have plastic blades and that today's masks don't all have silicone or PVC skirts. For me, the vintage era never really stopped, because advanced countries such as Japan still manufacture excellent-quality traditional all-rubber full-foot fins because divers there still prefer them to tupperware versions, while Mexico and Russia continue to manufacture decent traditional oval dive masks with blue rubber skirts that haven't changed since the middle of the last century. I've even managed to buy (via eBay) a brand new Russian L-shaped snorkel sporting a blue rubber mouthpiece. As for exposure suits, there is always the all-American Hydroglove drysuit, modelled on the So Lo Marx's Skooba-"totes" made in Ohio during the 1950s and 1960s. David, Wear did you buy the rubber foot fins? online or by luck finding them on eBay? Hi, Bill. No, not via eBay, although I did purchase new Russian masks and a new Russian snorkel from an eBay seller located in Russia. I bought a pair of Japanese Gull Mew rubber fins from a Hong Kong online retailer (marinetone.com), who sells worldwide:  I tried emailing Japanese retailers directly, but received no reply. I'm not alone in preferring traditional rubber fins to today's plastic concoctions. I love the article "My favourite kit" at www.divernet.com/gear-features/p300505-my-favourite-kit-pete-atkinson.htmlHere's what Pete Atkinson, an Australian professional underwater photographer, has to say about fins: FINS
I currently use the best fins I have ever used, but no dive store in Cairns will stock them, as they arent profitable enough. They are orange and blue, Malaysian rubber fins by Eyeline, available from a local sports shop for £20.
From new, I could snorkel for a couple of hours without any hint of blisters. They are stiff enough that I can push a Seacam housing around all day.
For the diving I do, such full-foot fins are by far the best. Manufacturers continue to dream up fancy expensive gimmicks to extract more money from us. Ill concede that a few of these might actually be useful but, offhand, I cant think of any.And here he is with his favourite fins:  I've got a pair of Malaysian Eyeline fins similar to his, priced £16.80 (roughly US$25) and they not only do the job, they're so comfortable too.  And like him, I bought them online from a general sporting goods dealer, as no British dive store, physical or online, seems to stock anything other than tupperware fins! |
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Post by nikeajax on May 6, 2016 12:20:30 GMT -8
Most things I own are old: not just a real quality issue, but also an aesthetic sense too:  
 It's also neat that a lot of what I have is either biodegradable or totally recyclable. When I look at my old gear I see that someone went to school before they designed it:  But now, it just feels so impersonal: yup, all done in CAD and as aesthetic as an iphone--BLAH! Jaybird |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 13:39:07 GMT -8
Hi, Bill. No, not via eBay, although I did purchase new Russian masks and a new Russian snorkel from an eBay seller located in Russia. I bought a pair of Japanese Gull Mew rubber fins from a Hong Kong online retailer (marinetone.com), who sells worldwide: Wow, Thanks David. If I ever get to the point that I can introduce colors again I'll include a link to Marinetone for there fins. 8 colors. Who says the old stuff can not be fashionable. I'm not alone in preferring traditional rubber fins to today's plastic concoctions. I love the article "My favourite kit" Here's what Pete Atkinson, an Australian professional underwater photographer, has to say about fins: FINS I currently use the best fins I have ever used, but no dive store in Cairns will stock them, as they arent profitable enough. They are orange and blue, Malaysian rubber fins by Eyeline, available from a local sports shop for £20. I like Pete's view. He is right about liability and all that lawyer stuff that helps muck things up. |
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Post by SeaRat on May 6, 2016 17:02:16 GMT -8
I'm sure showing up with an old US Divers Calypso w ould get you nothing but funny looks. Yet is was good enough for the 1000 foot Keller dive. I'm sure if that was mentioned, you would just get more funny looks. Who's Keller?Hahahahahahaha! I'm planning to that to a local dive shop, and I want to see their faces and hear all of the questions and comments that they might say. TD technidiver and cstmwrks, Hannes Keller was a mathematician from This video is in German, but it covers his world-record deep dive. Here is Wikipedia's explanation: Hannes Keller is the one who pioneered deep diving decompression schedules using multiple gases. His deep dive tragically cost the life of Keller's partner, Peter Small and one of his safety divers, Chris Whittaker. But it proved his theories, and led to breakthroughs in extreme deep diving. Here's a link to the Keller Deep Dive. John |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 14:04:25 GMT -8
Haven't dropped by in a while until the other day and read this string about the future of vintage diving. Wasn't sure I should add anything to what was said but having the time to think about this subject I thought I'd take a stab.
If ya'll recall, I made an attempt to develop and produce a new doublehose for the market but financing became impossible and my attempt crashed and burned. That being said I discovered quite a few things about the diving community. They are fickle as hell.
I found four types of divers. New Divers, Seasoned New Divers, Seasoned Divers, Old Divers and Technical.
New divers want the latest, greatest and cheapest pieces of equipment and are heavily influenced by their respective instructors/dive shops. This has been mentioned in this string already, however, it is also understood the shops need to make a profit to stay in business. And as stated already, many dive instructors either are biased or afraid of equipment of yesteryear due to either their own trainers or due to the association that provides the certification, such as PADI.
Seasoned New Divers become aware, some what, of equipment that is older than what the shops sell and some look for lower priced items at such places as ebay....some, but very few show interest in double hose regs or rubber based dive products as to many, rubber based products, such as masks, snorkels, fins and even wet suits are those old things that crack and dissolves or shrink with age.
Seasoned Divers fall into two categories: Budget and hang the expense;......They also began to look for gear to enhance or upgrade their collection.....specific pieces for different types of diving......some wander into the vintage arena of twin 38 or 45 cubic inch tanks, double hose regulators, etc.....many spin off into the tech. arena of diving.
Old divers, like many on this forum, ditch much of the modern equipment and embrace the old. Unfortunately we are looked upon by many of the other classes of divers as old guys (and gals) who can not embrace the future and dive that dangerous stuff. And we are getting older, not younger as our gear is. Soon we will be in the ground or in a jar somewhere and our gear in museums or the recycling bin.
I won't speak to much about tech's. Suffice to say they spend a lot of money and time acquiring too much redundancy. To me they factor out the real enjoyment of diving and replace that with monitoring their gauges or fiddling with some valve that is not needed. My issue is the manufacturing crowd have followed the tech's instead of keeping things simple. My opinion, and this is mine alone......if they are afraid of a failure of a piece of equipment, stay out of the water.(cave and wreck diving excluded)....I liken it to when I was learning to fly. One engine is ok as long as it works, there are many single engine planes......two engines are better for safety reasons, but that also means twice as much to monitor and twice as much to fail.
Now I have found that all of these folks like bright shiny pieces of gear but the dive manufactures have steered away from that with brushed chrome or plastic; colors do not seem to be in vogue anymore.......I like those blue and orange fins.
One bright light still out there is Bryan's and Luis' new double hose. The Krakan is a new manufactured reg in limited quantity. It seems the belief there is not a market large enough for mass production is accepted by VDH and VHD seems to limit their clientele to folks who see the world their way. Let me tell you, that will not keep vintage style diving alive. That being said, Luis' designs and my MB Mk3 proved that old and modern can be combined. The Krakan proves that every time someone hits the water.
I discovered that there IS a rather large market around the world for double hose regulators; interest in vintage style diving and folks gathering into informal and formal dive clubs for nothing more than vintage diving. Many showed an interest in my Sea Wolf design. Unfortunately I am not a good salesman and my campaign collapsed.
However, this market could be harnessed, a manufacturer needs to be convinced there is a market for products of real rubber and twin hoses; the old skills taught new again under a new certification program and a real interest drummed up among the New Divers, Seasoned Divers, the bulk of the folks I discovered who dive, perhaps vintage diving would morph into just scuba diving or at least accepted as one of the many styles of diving.
I hope this makes sense.
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Post by nikeajax on May 19, 2016 14:54:31 GMT -8
 Michael, I think the big problem is that people are becoming more and more dependent on technology, and losing their abilities to think critically... How many people believe an analogue gauge is certain death to use? Yeah, a dive computer is nice to use, but a lot of divers believe that it relieves them of responsibility of knowing the basic mechanics needed to be a safe diver... "Well, my computer is telling me I can go up now...", instead of, "Huh, I need to look at my gauges, I should think about my deco..." JB |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 6:51:39 GMT -8
Michael, I think the big problem is that people are becoming more and more dependent on technology, and losing their abilities to think critically... How many people believe an analogue gauge is certain death to use? Yeah, a dive computer is nice to use, but a lot of divers believe that it relieves them of responsibility of knowing the basic mechanics needed to be a safe diver... "Well, my computer is telling me I can go up now...", instead of, "Huh, I need to look at my gauges, I should think about my deco..." JB Jay, You are correct, that is why I stated a new certification course teaching the old style (analog, dive tables, no bc, buoyancy control, ie: minimum equip) mixed with what is only necessary for a modern diver to understand and use......a manufacturer that will take the risk of mass production of twin hose regulators......the same manufacturer or use existing foreign manufacturers products for rubber products and minimal bc designs..and a string of dive shops agreeing to teach and sell these items........big risks involved bucking the current established diving world......however, with movies, ads, and actual folks diving with this gear one could carve out a sizeable nitch in the world market......people are starving for adventure and excitement and diving today is so so boring after the first 10-15 dives, many just slow down or stop and sell their gear to the next newbie. But it won't happen.....I found no one willing to take the risk even for my SeaWolf.......Vintage will eventually,..... unless something changes or someone or group steps forward.........fade away into the history books. |
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