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Post by duckbill on May 20, 2016 19:00:22 GMT -8
"Vintage diving" and "vintage style diving" are two different things.
"Vintage diving" is diving gear that was contemporary in the early days of diving, and usually also means diving it the way it was dived then as well. This is the vintage "purist".
"Vintage style diving" doesn't even require the use of vintage gear. It is a style of diving as was done back "in the day". Proper weighting, no unnecessary redundancy, dive tables, simplicity, usually analog gauges (though not necessarily), etc. "Vintage style diving" does not necessarily mean "vintage diving" as far as the gear itself goes, as the gear does not have to be OEM.
Then there is this new trend, of mixing the new with the old. I think I've heard the term "eclectic diving" coined. This is not "vintage diving", but the gear can certainly be used while diving "vintage style". Double hose regulators incorporating modern upgrades of one kind or another fall in this category. They serve their purpose and fill their own niche, but are no longer "vintage regulators" while thusly configured.
So, is it "vintage diving" in its pure form that the op is asking about? Or is it "vintage style diving" that is the concern?
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Post by DavidRitchieWilson on May 20, 2016 22:12:41 GMT -8
Vintage will eventually,..... unless something changes or someone or group steps forward.........fade away into the history books. I'm more optimistic, at least when it comes to basic diving equipment other than SCUBA itself. The UK abandoned the manufacture of rubber fins, oval masks and rubber-mouthpieced snorkels decades ago. When that happened in my country, I decided to make a stand and do some research. I quickly found out that the whole world wasn't following the rush to silicone and plastic. Over the English Channel, in France, SOMMAP continued making fins, masks and snorkels the old-fashioned way, alongside a line of silicone and tupperware goods to give everybody a choice that the Brit companies were denying me. My dive store gave up retailing traditional fins, masks and snorkels, so I gave up buying things from them and discovered that one or two mail-order dive gear companies and general sporting goods stores had traditional gear among the products they sold. Malaysia- and Taiwan-made rubber fins came back into the market as swim training devices but anybody could see that many of them were perfectly serviceable for general diving use. You just have to resist the attempts of the "hidden persuaders" to sell their products for a narrow special purpose when they'll do the job of something else at a fraction of the cost. Along the way I discovered that Japan ignored the plastic revolution in fins and continued making ones in the best fin material in the world, natural rubber. After my research I found that there were probably a hundred different types of full-foot rubber fins, almost as many rubber-skirted masks and about thirty rubber-mouthpieced snorkels still being made worldwide and the only problem is getting hold of them. I'm glad to say that online retailing and communications have made the process easier, although it's far from perfect because some manufacturers still live in the twentieth century and are reluctant to engage in international trade; I'm sure such dinosaurs will see sense eventually. So I for one think that the information age has helped vintage diving, by bringing people like ourselves together and enabling us to negotiate with distributors and manufacturers of traditional gear around the world, bypassing the blinkered purveyors of plastic and silicone gear. |
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Post by nikeajax on May 21, 2016 8:13:41 GMT -8
Hopefully there will be more people stepping up to help save our old gear, or old styled. Yes, the VDH does make goods, but they are for only one brand, USD and Voit, there are only cosmetic differences between the two! I applaud Karl and Rob at the Scuba Museum for making a better diaphragm for our Healthways DH's to get them back in the water. Just recently I found someone through Dan's site is making new diaphragms for Divairs!!!! David, I hear your concern, but silicone is so much easier to maintain, and allergy issues are much much lower, unlike latex where people can develop an allergy quite rapidly... I really don't like the tupperware trend either! A lot of the old timers who originally used this gear are dying, and that knowledge base is rapidly vanishing. Without these old timers to tell people what the deal with the gear is, more and more people will shy away from it. It's up to people who are informed to get a newer generation to understand why this stuff is so important, and hopefully they can help educate others. Unfortunately, immediate-gratification has become so prevalent in modern society that children are learning they don't need to wait for anything, "Why do I want that, it's old, I can have something new and it will do way more..."  JB |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 9:02:43 GMT -8
"Vintage diving" and "vintage style diving" are two different things. "Vintage diving" is diving gear that was contemporary in the early days of diving, and usually also means diving it the way it was dived then as well. This is the vintage "purist". "Vintage style diving" doesn't even require the use of vintage gear. It is a style of diving as was done back "in the day". Proper weighting, no unnecessary redundancy, dive tables, simplicity, usually analog gauges (though not necessarily), etc. "Vintage style diving" does not necessarily mean "vintage diving" as far as the gear itself goes, as the gear does not have to be OEM. Then there is this new trend, of mixing the new with the old. I think I've heard the term "eclectic diving" coined. This is not "vintage diving", but the gear can certainly be used while diving "vintage style". Double hose regulators incorporating modern upgrades of one kind or another fall in this category. They serve their purpose and fill their own niche, but are no longer "vintage regulators" while thusly configured. So, is it "vintage diving" in its pure form that the op is asking about? Or is it "vintage style diving" that is the concern? Jay, That is my point. To save the skills needed for "vintage diving", I believe teaching those lost skills along side modern classes will help keep the old way viable.......ie: An example would be equipment required like DH regs of new manufacture like my design or the Krakan so one can dive either vintage or vintage mixed style.......these old regs you and others, including myself will be either scraped or in a museum one day due to the new kids wanting only new stuff.....yes, some will still keep what is available functioning but how long will that last?....I'd really like to see my step grand child and grand kids diving my old rebuilt regs, but the guys like Dan and Bryan and others will retire one day and who will pick up their business? Vintage diving skills must be taught in modern classes or these skills will atrophy and die off....by the way, you know these skills make you a much more confident and safe diver.......I would not dive with a newbie today cause I do not see them as competent in the water. Better to dive alone. Turning a blind eye to the reality of the future only hurts the sport I surmise...... Look at some of the cars made today........modern versions of the muscle cars of yesterday, even before that in some cases........I can not imagine my grand kids riding around in a self driving car.....how much fun is that? 4 barrel carbed, blown big cubic inch engines have been replaced with mostly smaller fuel injection/turbocharged muscle cars...BUT STILL WITH clutch and shift.......one still has control of their machine!........same with diving.......personal satisfaction I guess is the word I am reaching for.......knowing you can function perfectly well in the water, not relying on 'stuff' to keep one safe and functional is more satisfying in my opinion......but a hundred years from now...heck, 50 years all we do now will be just memories unless as I stated, someone or group steps forward. David I agree with you that there are manufacturers of rubber products around the world, but getting them to sell internationally or to even license their products to be manufactured else where would be a real challenge. |
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Post by nikeajax on May 21, 2016 10:06:03 GMT -8
I know people are sick of me ALWAYS talking about HW gear, but I think what helped make them is that they were economy gear, but it was also quality. That quality and sheer volume made it possible for modern collectors to need and want to preserve them and make them work again. My friend Jim likes to point out that in 1963, Consumer Reports ranked HW as... #1, and NOT US Divers!!!!!!
I consider it my duty to pull people over to the "Dark Side" (HW): I know I got Don hooked, but also Mark and TD: John, who I refer jokingly as "The Dark Lord" got me into it... Yes, it takes dedication and hard work to be a Healthways aficionado, but it makes your gear that much more special to you, and it makes you see things through a different lens: gosh Michael, kinda like your being a Marine, not everyone has the integrity or stamina to do it... Vive la différence! That difference makes you more willing to try to make others understand why it's so important to preserve our history!
Sincerely yours,
Darth Vader
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Post by nikeajax on May 21, 2016 10:36:22 GMT -8
Michael, I should also add, that one of the main reasons I tried to help you with your project was it something different, and that it would help broaden the knowledge base: the knowledge of knowing that a DH can be a safe regulator to use. I was hoping that it might, like an old car, get people to make more parts to revive our old gear; c'est la vie, SIGH!
JB
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Post by nikeajax on May 21, 2016 11:05:12 GMT -8
BWAHAHAHAHA--SNORT!
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 11:35:17 GMT -8
Michael, I should also add, that one of the main reasons I tried to help you with your project was it something different, and that it would help broaden the knowledge base: the knowledge of knowing that a DH can be a safe regulator to use. I was hoping that it might, like an old car, get people to make more parts to revive our old gear; c'est la vie, SIGH! JB And Jay, I really appreciated that help,,,,,,,,,but alast.....it was not to be. |
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Post by technidiver on May 21, 2016 17:06:08 GMT -8
Hey JB, where am I?  Am I young Skywalker? I'm looking to buy a Royal Mistral, only due to the year (2016 50th anniversary of the Silent World) and after ai get that, I will be a mostly HW diver. TD |
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Post by SeaRat on May 21, 2016 17:16:26 GMT -8
Michael, I should also add, that one of the main reasons I tried to help you with your project was it something different, and that it would help broaden the knowledge base: the knowledge of knowing that a DH can be a safe regulator to use. I was hoping that it might, like an old car, get people to make more parts to revive our old gear; c'est la vie, SIGH! JB Michael, I was hoping also that this regulator would go, and was about to help out but was on vacation in Germany and Italy when this went down. I don't think the amount of my help would have made a difference though. I really wanted to test dive that SeaWolf regulator though. John |
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Post by nikeajax on May 21, 2016 17:42:10 GMT -8
Hey JB, where am I? Am I young Skywalker? I'm looking to buy a Royal Mistral, only due to the year (2016 50th anniversary of the Silent World) and after ai get that, I will be a mostly HW diver. TD  |
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Post by technidiver on May 21, 2016 17:55:18 GMT -8
Hey JB, where am I? Am I young Skywalker? I'm looking to buy a Royal Mistral, only due to the year (2016 50th anniversary of the Silent World) and after ai get that, I will be a mostly HW diver. TD Hahahahahahaha! I've always liked Boba Fett. TD |
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Post by tomcatpc on May 21, 2016 18:46:46 GMT -8
My Wife is currently taking her Open Water Class. We are going to the pool in the morning and I am going along as well. Packed in the car ready to go is one US Divers Steel 72, my "long" 1965 Healthways Tank along with my US Divers Mistral and Calypso-J and my Healthways Scuba Star reg.
I took them all last week, but only used the two US Divers regs and tank. I had one person (younger than me, guessing somewhere in his 30's?) actually take an interest and say it was "cool" seeing vintage gear. One other person, ask "how old is that reg?".
At least one person that I talked to actually had a genuine interest and the last time I took my Mistral to the pool in Feb. I had another person who was honestly interested. He actually had a US Divers double hose (he did not know what it was) that was his Dad's that he was going to check into getting back in action...
I guess little by little, there are a select group that might get interested as more exposure is made? I don't know, just my experience, what little there is.
Mark
Healthways Cult Member number three!!!
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Post by nikeajax on May 21, 2016 19:03:34 GMT -8
Mark, excellent! It's always fun when you can bring old gear to the pool and see people's eyes light up... My poor wife, she just has to kinda sit there and nod while I geek out. Though she really likes the gear she doesn't get excited about what makes them tick like I do. I have had people looking at me with their mouth hanging open and then tell me something like "Holy smokes, you look awesome..." Nothing seems to say "old pro" like a DH, "Stand back, I'm about to dive to 850-feet to recover a pearl ear ring that was just dropped off the side of the ship, I'll be back in five, 'kay guys..."
JB
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Post by SeaRat on May 22, 2016 18:19:16 GMT -8
"Vintage diving" and "vintage style diving" are two different things. "Vintage diving" is diving gear that was contemporary in the early days of diving, and usually also means diving it the way it was dived then as well. This is the vintage "purist". "Vintage style diving" doesn't even require the use of vintage gear. It is a style of diving as was done back "in the day". Proper weighting, no unnecessary redundancy, dive tables, simplicity, usually analog gauges (though not necessarily), etc. "Vintage style diving" does not necessarily mean "vintage diving" as far as the gear itself goes, as the gear does not have to be OEM. Then there is this new trend, of mixing the new with the old. I think I've heard the term "eclectic diving" coined. This is not "vintage diving", but the gear can certainly be used while diving "vintage style". Double hose regulators incorporating modern upgrades of one kind or another fall in this category. They serve their purpose and fill their own niche, but are no longer "vintage regulators" while thusly configured. So, is it "vintage diving" in its pure form that the op is asking about? Or is it "vintage style diving" that is the concern? Duckbill, I rotate between all three categories, depending upon my mood and what I want on a particular dive. I conduct a "vintage dive" whenever I dive the old-style regulators, including my Mistral, Royal Aquamaster, Dacor double hose regs, etc. Because I rarely get deeper than 25 feet, the buoyancy compensation question is not a huge factor. I dive single hose regs too, including my MR-12, Calypso-J, etc. in the same manner as a single-hose regulator. I also dive "vintage style," with either my Mossback Mk3 or my Trieste II. I have been diving my Trieste II with an octopus, SPG or dive computer, and LP inflator on my doubles or even on a single tank (I've grown to enjoy the single 72 due to its weight and its buoyancy characteristics in the water). I also dive in the same manner my other "single hose" regulators, but with octopus, LP inflator and my dive computer. I have an original Calypso regulator with a second generation Calypso octopus, LP hose and SPG that is on a long line, so that if I need to dive with the DIR divers, I can be configured correctly according to their protocols, but also dive "vintage style." Finally, I have been adapting my equipment with new concepts as they come out, incorporating new underwater swimming techniques with the older equipment too. This would fall into your category of "eclectic diving," I think (although this is the first I've actually heard of this term). I have a lot of thoughts about the future of vintage scuba, as I think that the future of diving involves evolving beyond the technical diving to better swimming (more streamlined, more efficient movements through the water), and incorporating the double hose regulator into a newer system for buoyancy control and underwater communications. "Details at 10!"  I found this photo of me by Bruce Higgins taken about seven years ago at Edmonds Underwater Park, when my UDS-1 system was still operational. John PS, Jaybird, that photo above even looks sort of like me--uncanny! |
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Am I young Skywalker? I'm looking to buy a Royal Mistral, only due to the year (2016 50th anniversary of the Silent World) and after ai get that, I will be a mostly HW diver. 
