|
Post by vance on Nov 22, 2023 16:23:43 GMT -8
Hello Vance Sorry I didn't noticed the "Exhaust Auxiliary Valve N0. 27" and the drillings in the horn on CG45 . As long as this valve works adequate I see no safety drawback . If you remove the inhale valve in the mouthpiece your exhale pressure goes to both sides of the exhale diaphragm . There is no way to move the diaphragm away from the horn . In this case only the auxilary valve opens . This way you can test the auxilary valve without opening the reg. If the inhale valve in the mouthpiece worked well , your exhale pressure can be highter then a littel overpressure in the can and break the exhaust valve loose . Thank you for showing me the auxilary valve Rainer Early Scubas did not have the auxiliary exhaust holes. I suppose then that these could be dangerous to use? I can't see that a minor HP leak could cause any serious problem, and I can't see that the design of the HP valve could allow a major leak unless a spring self-destructed or some other unlikely event. But thanks for the warning. I'll only mod the regs with the #27 aux valve. While it's unlikely a catastrophic HP fault could occur, my mod does introduce the possibility of an uncontrolled freeflow, if it is tuned right on to the edge.
|
|
|
Post by SeaRat on Nov 22, 2023 19:19:52 GMT -8
Hello Vance Sorry I didn't noticed the "Exhaust Auxiliary Valve N0. 27" and the drillings in the horn on CG45 . As long as this valve works adequate I see no safety drawback . If you remove the inhale valve in the mouthpiece your exhale pressure goes to both sides of the exhale diaphragm . There is no way to move the diaphragm away from the horn . In this case only the auxilary valve opens . This way you can test the auxilary valve without opening the reg. If the inhale valve in the mouthpiece worked well , your exhale pressure can be highter then a littel overpressure in the can and break the exhaust valve loose . Thank you for showing me the auxilary valve Rainer Rainier, You are correct. Let me explain. I just tested my hybrid Healthways Scuba regulator, with a Hope-Page mouthpiece (easy to take out the non-returns). Here's what I found. If you remove the inhale valve in the mouthpiece your exhale pressure goes to both sides of the exhale diaphragm . There is no way to move the diaphragm away from the horn . Correct, to a degree. The main diaphragm does move, but inhalation is extremely hard. What if you remove the exhalation nen-return valve? On land, removing the exhalation non-return valve sets up an inhalation out of the exhalation hose, as the exhalation diaphragm on the regulor does not seal. I don't know what happens underwater, but that is probably dependent on the diver's orientation in the water. With no mouthpiece non-return mushrooms?Again, on the surface, there is no sealing of the exhalation hose, and so breathing comse through the exhalsation hose, without any movement of the diaphragm. I would not want to use that underwater. Now, a comment was made that I had previously experimented with no non-return valves in the mouthpiece. I did that with the Gold Label Scuba, because the original mouthpiece was so small in diameter that I thought it needed more area to function optimallly. Well, yes and no! Witthout the inhalation or exhalation non-return, it vented through the mouthpiece on inhalation with the original Healthways mouthpiece (it has a deflector plate, but the Venturi overcomes that too). Because the Gold Label has a soldiered piece by the exhalation non-return mushroom in the case, it is not jammed shut by the exhalation effort. But with the Healthways Deluxe regulator, no non-returns will seal the exhalation non-return mushroom when the main diaphragm pushes against it without something there to block that action (I glued a not in theere to keep the main diaphragm from sealing without an exhaust mushroom in the original mouthpiece. I now have a Gold Label set up with U.S. Divers Company hoses, and it works fine with that hose loop and mouthpiece. IMG_2704 by John Ratliff, on Flickr Here you can see me at High Rocks on the Clackamas River with my hybrid Healthways Scuba regulator, with the Hope-Page mouthpiece. It turns out that this configuration is entirely dependent upon both non-return valves in the mouthpiece being in place. John
|
|
|
Post by vance on Nov 23, 2023 14:54:30 GMT -8
So a little update on the GL style mod. I glued the top on, and sealed the tube end where it meets the valve body with RTV. I reassembled it, and hooked it up to a tank, using a USD curved mouthpiece hoseloop with non-returns installed.
WOW!
I was ready for it, and it still shocked me. It blew the unclamped (I never clamp the hose cuffs when testing) intake hose cuff off the horn and blasted into hard freeflow.
I took the valve out and drilled two 1/16" holes horizontally at the base of the venturi tube ala the Mistral tube. I used a slightly smaller hole than the Mistral so it left room for adjustment. I also did not reinstall the removeable jet.
After reassembling and testing, I found it right on the edge of hard freeflow, but was able to induce and dampen freeflow via the mouthpiece. Next step is to reinstall the removeable jet and test.
I'll try a DSV somewhere in the experiments. The DSV can calm a freeflow prone regulator that is right on the edge. However, this isn't my goal. I want it to work with normal mps.
James makes a 3D insert for Hope-Page mps that will also dampen the on the edge regulator for a really great breathing system.
|
|
cg43
Senior Diver
Posts: 89
|
Post by cg43 on Nov 23, 2023 15:08:35 GMT -8
Hello Vance
A venturi caused low pressure in the can and speed converted to pressure in the exhaused horn should both open the horn/exhale diaphragm valve . That' s fine for safety , but this freeflow is only stopped by the resistanze in the loop .
BTW have you tested the function of your #27 aux valves ? The rubber may be hart or sticking to the horn .
Greetings Rainer
|
|
|
Post by vance on Nov 23, 2023 15:35:31 GMT -8
Hello Vance A venturi caused low pressure in the can and speed converted to pressure in the exhaused horn should both open the horn/exhale diaphragm valve . That' s fine for safety , but this freeflow is only stopped by the resistanze in the loop . BTW have you tested the function of your #27 aux valves ? The rubber may be hart or sticking to the horn . Greetings Rainer I replace the rubber band. The formed silicone duckbill for USD regulators is about 1" too long. I cut them down and use the resulting piece, cut in half, as a replacement valve. It fits perfectly. Every OEM band I've seen is hard and brittle, and can't function.
|
|
cg43
Senior Diver
Posts: 89
|
Post by cg43 on Nov 23, 2023 15:42:46 GMT -8
Hallo John
Probably You want to write : "......, but exhalation is extremely hard " ?
Does your reg. has the auxilary exhaust valve # 27 ? Does your reg. has the # 33 valve ? If the valves are installed , do they work ?
Greetings Rainer
|
|
|
Post by vance on Nov 23, 2023 15:46:38 GMT -8
It turns out I did drill into a steel long valve some time ago. I'd forgotten.....
Anyway, I'll start working on this one again after I get the long-suffering short brass valve I'm doing now, working. This poor thing has been modded and remodded. I'm not going to try to reproduce the filled-in with JBWeld plenum box on the steel one. This might result in different behavior, but I doubt it could be very different.
We'll see. That's the fun, right?
|
|
|
Post by SeaRat on Nov 23, 2023 23:06:45 GMT -8
Hallo John Probably You want to write : "......, but exhalation is extremely hard " ? Does your reg. has the auxilary exhaust valve # 27 ? Does your reg. has the # 33 valve ? If the valves are installed , do they work ? Greetings Rainer No, Rainer, I meant inhalation. I haven’t looked at the exhalation valves, but believe that they are there. I simply put a rubber band over those holes. Healthways Scuba Hybrid5 by John Ratliff, on Flickr Here’s what my hybrid Healthways Scuba looks like on the inside. Note the rubber band covering the holes. I don’t if they work, as I’ve never experienced the exhalation diaphragm sticking to the exhalation tube. John with PJ tanks on Lamprey Video by John Ratliff, on Flickr Here you can see me on a dive to video lamprey eels spawning in the Clackamas River. This was several years ago, and the Hybrid Healthways Scuba regulator performed very well indeed on a very strenuous dive John
|
|
cg43
Senior Diver
Posts: 89
|
Post by cg43 on Nov 24, 2023 3:07:08 GMT -8
Hello John During inhalation the inhale valve in the mouthpiece is open , therefore it's no big difference if it's there or not . During exhale withhout inhale valve in the mouthpiece the main diaphragm is moved up to it's limit . But this should make no difference to the next inhale . At least , looking to your photo , I can see no reason . Greetings Rainer Edit: You write : The rubber band over those holes is the auxilary exhaust valve # 27 . The funtion is an safety over pressure valve for the loop and the diver's lung . After changing the rubber band you should check the funktion and cracking pressure . Something between not less than 2,5 inch water column to avoid freeflow and not more than 8 inch (my suggestion's) . The check is easy done and needs no tools . Close the can end of the exhale horn and blew in the other end .
|
|
|
Post by vance on Nov 24, 2023 13:40:43 GMT -8
Getting back to the mod, I installed James' 3D baffle in a Hope-Page and tried the Scuba with the removeable jet installed.
It is definitely not on the edge of freeflow with the baffled mp, but still delivers pretty well. I switched back to the USD loop, and it certainly was not threatening to freeflow, but the noise certainly increased, if not the amount of air. It's hard to tell, subjectively.
Next will be to remove the jet and try both hoseloops.
|
|
|
Post by vance on Nov 24, 2023 17:03:54 GMT -8
The biggest problem with this regulator is obvious. The exhaust system is very problematic. The addition of a duckbill to control head-down hose flooding increases the exhaust effort a lot. The exhaust effort required is too much, and offsets any gains in inhalation effort afforded by this mod.
I agree with Ranier. These regs are not ever going to be as good as HWs later single stage regs, USDs offerings, etc. However, the replacement parts and mods we've designed offer new life to this unique regulator.
|
|
|
Post by SeaRat on Nov 25, 2023 13:52:37 GMT -8
The biggest problem with this regulator is obvious. The exhaust system is very problematic. The addition of a duckbill to control head-down hose flooding increases the exhaust effort a lot. The exhaust effort required is too much, and offsets any gains in inhalation effort afforded by this mod. I agree with Ranier. These regs are not ever going to be as good as HWs later single stage regs, USDs offerings, etc. However, the replacement parts and mods we've designed offer new life to this unique regulator. Interesting…as a 14 year old kid with limited financial resources (berry and bean picking money from the summer), I choose the Healthways Scuba over the USD Mistral because of its smooth breathing. I had no idea about exhaust design, or effort. I simply used it and really enjoyed it. I was enthralled simply to be breathing underwater! The Healthways Scuba had a very robust design for materials, not needing much in the way of maintenance. (This was actually better than the USD Mistral.). Mine had the original blue hoses, Hope-Page Mouthpiece, and of course, the main diaphragm and exhaust diaphragms were rubberized nylon, and long-lasting. In later years I experimented with this design, and with that bothersome duckbill. I took the duckbill out, and simply used it is originally designed. Other and an occasional partial flood of the exhaust hose when I was descending in a surface dive head-first, it breathed extremely easily. I then replaced the duckbill with a drastically cut-down version of the USD duckbill, which acted only as a stopper for flooding, and it again breathed very well. I realize that several newer versions of the duckbill have been made, but realize that the main reason for this duckbill is only to prevent hose flooding, not to stop water totally. John
|
|
cg43
Senior Diver
Posts: 89
|
Post by cg43 on Nov 25, 2023 15:44:48 GMT -8
Hello John , hello Vance
For me your experience with the old Healthways Scuba is very interesting .
I want to build an reg. with pneumatic compensated exhaust valve like the Healthways (or Scott Aquapac) , or an weight compensated reg. like the HEINKE TWIN HORN . Both is possibel .
Has anyone an HEINKE TWIN HORN or experience with this reg. ?
We can open a new thread for the Heinke .
Greetings Rainer
|
|