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Post by artc on Dec 6, 2023 14:08:33 GMT -8
Thanks Phil, I’ll check it out.
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Post by vance on Dec 10, 2023 13:13:56 GMT -8
I just got an email from Ed LaRochelle about this Green Label. The label is green, but it is incorrect. It is a Blue Label, painted green. Ed didn't read my eBay description, and explained at length how the label shows the regulator to be a Blue Label, not Green, and that the serial # is not authentic. I do appreciate his concern about authenticity, and that he took the trouble to write. In the eBay auction description I was careful to very clear that the reg has a reproduction label with a made up serial number that was laser etched. One thing I didn't realize is that the reproduction label I got wasn't the one I thought I was getting. Check out the difference between this one that is on the website and the one I was sent and a Blue
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 10, 2023 14:50:52 GMT -8
Phil, font-matching and typography is an art form that most people take for granted, and never think about it. When I did that Voit decal for you, I tried to be as careful as I could in reproducing it faithfully: I eventually just had to stop and say, "That's good enough..." ARRRROOOOGA-GONK-GONK-GONK!All those labels were created by hand, much-much larger, then shrunk down with a camera: nothing was standardized. Nowadays, everything is so standardized, it's become sterile, and lacking in any nuance. When I started in graphic art, hand work was dying: everything looks exactly the same now: I really have no respect for modern advertising. JB
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Post by vance on Dec 10, 2023 16:24:36 GMT -8
The reproduction Green label I got was a copy of the Blue label, painted green. On the website that sells reproduction labels, there is a mix of correct labels, but you don't know what you will get. I'm not sure what happened there, but it's not certain you'll get correct labels.
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Post by artc on Dec 10, 2023 17:42:34 GMT -8
Phil, I think your Broxton looks great! And I know, with your skills, it works great too and that’s what is important. As rare as those regs are, I wouldn’t worry about a small discrepancy in the label.
Looking at your photos, it took me ten minutes of comparing to finally figure out what the difference was.
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Post by SeaRat on Dec 10, 2023 17:53:59 GMT -8
You know, my original Broxton still has its original, beat up, scratched, paint-flaking label. Aqualung Regulator-2 by John Ratliff, on Flickr It still works well though. I view the label as just something that identifies the regulator. Aqualung Regulator-1 by John Ratliff, on Flickr John PS, this post comes to you from the Hyatt hotel at University Station, Hong Kong. We’ve been here for a week, and will be returning to the USA tomorrow.
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Post by vance on Dec 11, 2023 9:42:30 GMT -8
I got another note from Ed, saying I should not sell the Broxton with the label like it is, since it will only cause historical confusion. I understand his concern because I also have some reservation about it. I'd like to know what I can do to satisfy his objections.
I'm not sure if he's against the color or if it's a blanket objection to the reproduction label.
I've asked him to join us here to express his concerns and to begin a discussion concerning reproduction labels. No idea if he will, but it would be interesting and informative to have him participating here!
I am wondering what his thoughts are about the Scuba Deluxe and Trieste repros. What are other people's thoughts on this?
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 11, 2023 10:29:38 GMT -8
Hmmmmm? He's obviously a purist: while that can be good in some respects, it can also keep someone from restoring things too.
With all due respect: what's the alternative? Have it sitting around without a label waiting for a donor that might never come around?
As long as you state that it isn't historically correct, which you have, someone should be very happy to get it, and hopefully use it too.
It's scarce, but I wouldn't say that it's actually rare. You put some time and effort into it, you deserve to be paid for that too. If it honestly bothers the buyer that much, they can take the label off.
This is reminding me of when I did work on the B-29 Superfortress at Castle Air Museum: it was made up of two aircraft to make whole one. They had me redo the nose-art: though it's not perfect or original, it still makes people happy to see the old bird close to how it was.
Jus' sayin'!
JB
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Post by artc on Dec 11, 2023 10:33:47 GMT -8
Well, I guess it depends on whether you’re a hard core collector or someone who likes to actually dive with vintage equipment. For those that covet shelf queens, then I suppose the label is the end all be all to identify their prize. I’m, however, in the other camp in that my priority is going diving with a good working reg. And by going diving, you’re going to get scratches, dings and dents on your reg. I still have my first regulator, a USD Calypso III. Over the years it has morphed into a Calypso IV and VI with parts upgrades. It’s scratched and dented, but works like the day it came out of the box. For me, it’s about having fun and getting wet. Nuff said.
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Post by artc on Dec 11, 2023 11:15:56 GMT -8
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 11, 2023 11:44:55 GMT -8
Well said sir!
JB
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Post by vance on Dec 11, 2023 13:06:41 GMT -8
I went through this kind of discussion and agonizing over a vintage Chinese T53 Mosin Nagant carbine I once owned. Its stock was badly cracked and the finish was gone. It was soaked in some sort of oily muck that stank and was unpleasant to hold. It was unshootable even though the metal was all perfect.
I repaired the stock and refinished it in shellac as the originals were. It came out beautifully. I posted the result on a forum, which turned out to be a mistake.
I was berated by some for interfering with it. They believe that anything vintage or antique should be left as is, even though it is no longer functional, and I had destroyed its historical importance.
I took the view, along with many others, that it deserved to be rescued and made whole again. I was not trying to deceive anyone. The dowel pins and a big filled crack were obvious. By fixing it, I was able to have fun shooting it instead of putting it in a box in the basement.
I also took the view that it was my rifle and I had the right to do whatever I wanted with it.
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Post by vance on Dec 11, 2023 13:15:26 GMT -8
I think the problem that Ed has with this regulator is not the restoration, but in calling it a Green Label. The regulator very well might be might be a Green Label, but the reproduction label should be painted blue.
To get around this, I might strip the paint off the label so there's no chance of confusion in the future.
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Post by nikeajax on Dec 11, 2023 13:26:41 GMT -8
Phil, just leave it: you have made it abundantly clear that it's NOT ORIGINAL... let the next owner worry about it if it bothers them that much I have some old bows from the 1920's, I'm restoring them. When I've been on bow forums, people without fail will always say they only good for fire wood, and when someone does restore one, they'll bring in a back-hoe to bury the person in guilt... No matter what you do, people will always be unhappy about whatever it is you've done. You've resurrected another regulator that would more than likely end up being sold as scrap and end up melted... It's a nice looking reg now JB
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Post by vance on Dec 11, 2023 16:18:02 GMT -8
Yeah, I know, but I'm still stuck on the historical identification problem.
Ed has a point, and it's his bailiwick. The only thing we have to accurately ID stuff is the original label. When we put repro ID stuff on them, we need to indicate that it is a reproduction somehow. The serial # on my Broxton regulator is a problem, even though it does not look authentic by any means. I should have made it FX7049.
TSM made 50 Fathom reproduction boxes and labels that Rob designated FX (faux). Although there's no indication on the boxes or labels, people buying them from him know now they are not original. However, anyone in the future buying a regulator from an estate (or whatever) with these boxes could not know that they're not getting an original.
I think we need to be sure to mark reproductions as such.
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