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Post by Broxton Carol on Mar 18, 2006 5:19:01 GMT -8
There is NO room for all this negative stuff. You could trip and fall tomorrow.. are your relatives going to sue your estate because you were too stupid to watch where your walking? There are two roads to take: Just forget the whole thing. Dont make any. it was a bad idea, too risky. Not worth the grief OR make the things and contribute a milestone item to vintage diving? If Me, Bryan, Dan, Stuart, and the others making vintage parts are all so paranoid, lets just find another hobby. Can you imagine the liability of the rebuilding a regulator? Get rid of it all put it on ebay, after cutting, and burning to make it un usable. Luis have a great day, nothing but GOOD things will come from your efforts. Chucko
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Post by JES on Mar 18, 2006 6:35:08 GMT -8
None of these discussions are even remotely negative in nature. They are however firmly based in reality and even offer an open intelligent discussion of the potential legal issues at hand. We might not like the message, but that doesn't mean we should shoot the messenger. Finally, no one is saying anything that Luis hasn't already said: ...The bottom line is that I am not concerned about loosing a liability case; I am concern about the legal expense of one. Anyone can sue for whatever reason and under first impressions this does look like a new design.
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Post by Broxton Carol on Mar 18, 2006 7:29:52 GMT -8
Yes they are as they're installing the "Negative lawyer" scenario into the opportunity to make a great item. Heres a story. 25 years ago, I have an insurance claim on the job. It came 2 years to the date That it supposedly happened. NOTHING had happened, but a crooked lawyer, and another person went together to get insurance money. I called my insurance company, and they paid these crooks 10.000.00 to GO AWAY. Their original claim was for 100.000.00 but they went away for 10.000.00! I was told by the insurance company that the lawyer would drive up the costs so much running it into court, that it was cheaper to settle and be rid of it. Heres the good part now... about two years later, I read in the Columbus Dispatch that this same crum, jumped off a speedboat in lake tahoe with an anchor around his neck, and killed himself. It was revealed in the paper over the next few days, that the lawyer was being investigated for stealing from clients, insurance FRAUD, tax evasion and a litany of other stuff. The lawyers wife got a lawyer, and tried to stop the law from taking all his files. His partner said he didnt know anything about what was going on.... sure. The thought of such crooks is negative. There are honorable lawyers, but those few crumbs, make the whole business look bad. Forget even a thought of any problems and forge ahead!!!!
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Post by JES on Mar 18, 2006 8:29:58 GMT -8
That reminds me of a saying that I read at Hooters: "It's only 99% of the lawyers that give a bad name to the rest of them"
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Post by nemrod on Mar 18, 2006 8:45:15 GMT -8
"It's not us that Luis is worried about."
Then who is he worried about? I don't think he is planning on selling them at Wal Mart to the general public. Y'all are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Make up an EXPERIMENTAL decal and stick it across the nozzle. The aviation community deals with stuff like this all the time. Lawyers want another giant tobacco company or munitions company or drug company to gut and leave it's employees homeless, not some fellow selling "display" experimental nozzles. Nemrod
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Post by diverdown1955 on Mar 18, 2006 9:47:13 GMT -8
My 2cents worth, Jame's hit the nail on the head,again!
Jerry
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Post by duckbill on Mar 18, 2006 10:49:28 GMT -8
"It's not us that Luis is worried about." Then who is he worried about? I don't think he is planning on selling them at Wal Mart to the general public. James, a few days ago I would have agreed, but I just saw where Luis mentioned his nozzle to a diver on SCUBABoard of all places. That's almost as bad as Wal Mart sometimes! I don't know the diver, but I wouldn't think selling outside "the circle" would be a good idea UNLESS he has in mind to sell enough of the nozzles to be able to cover liability. Are you on board, Luis? I love your idea and would like to get one of the nozzles in the near future. I hope you can go through with this.
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Post by JES on Mar 18, 2006 12:34:49 GMT -8
"It's not us that Luis is worried about." Then who is he worried about? I don't think he is planning on selling them at Wal Mart to the general public. ... When I said he's not worried about us, I meant the small number of individuals who have actually dove together or with a mutual acquaintance and/or are regular contributors to these boards. Between this board & VDH there are 500 registered users. Over on the Scuba Board there are 57,945 more registered users. Who knows how many "guests" roll through all three sites. All together you have a quite a large number of potential customers (not counting guests). Guess that does kind of make it like selling at Wal-Mart. Finally, like I posted before no one is saying anything that Luis hasn't already said: ...The bottom line is that I am not concerned about loosing a liability case; I am concern about the legal expense of one. Anyone can sue for whatever reason and under first impressions this does look like a new design.
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Post by nemrod on Mar 18, 2006 17:52:45 GMT -8
I would not deal with anyone from Scubaboard, they are not part of the vintage group unless they join up over here.
Luis is not selling complete nozzles. You have to take the "display" nozzle and install your parts into it. If your parts are defective or installed incorrectly or of the wrong type--oh well.
James
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Post by luis on Mar 18, 2006 21:22:44 GMT -8
"It's not us that Luis is worried about." Then who is he worried about? I don't think he is planning on selling them at Wal Mart to the general public. James, a few days ago I would have agreed, but I just saw where Luis mentioned his nozzle to a diver on SCUBABoard of all places. That's almost as bad as Wal Mart sometimes! I don't know the diver, but I wouldn't think selling outside "the circle" would be a good idea UNLESS he has in mind to sell enough of the nozzles to be able to cover liability. Are you on board, Luis? I love your idea and would like to get one of the nozzles in the near future. I hope you can go through with this. Swimjim is also a member of this board. Here are some of his recent posts: vintagescuba.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&n=1&thread=649But you are right, I don't know him very well. How do I know who is really inside “the circle”? I am planning on going through with the production of the nozzles, but sticking my head in the sand is not going to make this issue go away. In many…many ways I am a risk taker, but I don’t like to gamble with my finances. I think that I may have a solution for this issue. I am still hoping to take orders after Sand Dog III.
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Post by duckbill on Mar 18, 2006 23:03:11 GMT -8
I apologize for mentioning him as an example. I didn't make the connection. I was just surprised to see the mention of your nozzle on SCUBABoard. However, I think it's safe to assume that anyone purchasing a nozzle would actually be a vintage equipment diver and probably a member of one or both of the vintage diving forums. None of my business anyhow. I just hope to see the fruition of your labors. I think the whole thing is outstanding, Luis.
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Post by nemrod on Mar 18, 2006 23:37:48 GMT -8
"I would not deal with anyone from Scubaboard, they are not part of the vintage group unless they join up over here."
When I said this I meant that I would not advertize to non vintage folks or to non VSS or VDH forum members. There are a number of such people including me that show up on scubaboard including SwimJim. I don't know how we got to talking about him but he is definitly a vintage diver. Sorry if I caused this confusion. Many of us show up on multiple boards. It is good to be a circle but an open circle that allows new divers as well as old. I would rather not have the nozzles than become an exclusive club that regards every new comer with suspicion and distrust. Nemrod
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Post by JES on Mar 19, 2006 4:14:31 GMT -8
...It is good to be a circle but an open circle that allows new divers as well as old. I would rather not have the nozzles than become an exclusive club that regards every new comer with suspicion and distrust. Nemrod Now I agree with diverdown1955 when he said "My 2cents worth, Jame's hit the nail on the head, again!"
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2006 6:44:08 GMT -8
Great.........to misquote the Great Admiral Perry......"Damm the Lawyers and full steam ahead!!""
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Post by Broxton Carol on Mar 19, 2006 9:15:12 GMT -8
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