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Post by Broxton Carol on Apr 8, 2008 4:21:30 GMT -8
BRAVO BRAVO!!!!!............. APPLAUSE!!!!!
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Post by nemrod on Apr 8, 2008 8:36:46 GMT -8
As Pesc points out instruction with non supported gear is problematic.
I too was thinking more along the lines of a historical exploration BUT with actual introduction to the equipment and methods and techniques in a pool--controlled conditions. The primary emphasis would not be old double hose regulators for the pool work but instead the universal concepts of neutral bouyancy without a BC, doff and dons, buddy breathing, water skills, and as Sir SeaRat mentions consumption calculations and methods of diving. I was working on a PowerPoint but it has not gotten very far.
Yes, a historical exploration with some hands on with the concepts of vintage without actually putting them in vintage gear in the ocean is my thought. THEN, what the "students" do afterwards is their own buisness.
Nem
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wd8cdh
Regular Diver
Posts: 35
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Post by wd8cdh on Apr 8, 2008 8:49:53 GMT -8
In great lakes wreck diving in 1970 many of us were using D or E O2 cylinders with post valves as ponys and 2 second stages on the main tank's regulator were common. Some of us were even using custom machined stainless steel adapters between single valves and the tank with stainless steel tubing between them to make manifolds with independant shutoffs.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2008 9:00:53 GMT -8
Underwater doff and don, Baby! Don't forget the Doff and Don twins! And, OVERHEAD TANK DONNING. I had no idea that was frowned upon these days until someone mentioned it. I don't care. I'll still do it like I always have. Works GREAT. Terry I have to agree with you. I still use the overhead method to don my tanks, either twin 38's or single 72 or even a 95. Not a problem......and one really wise (just ask him and he'll tell you he is) dive shop operator told me it was impossible to don scuba gear over ones head with the modern bc jacket or wings...... Yeah...........and it snows in hell too.........
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Post by scubadiverbob on Apr 8, 2008 9:45:30 GMT -8
I got a question ... If they create a vintage certification, will I have to pay $200 or so to dive with equipment I've used most of my life?
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Post by shackle on Apr 8, 2008 10:46:32 GMT -8
If you do it through PADI you better believe it. The industry is product driven. The reason behind the gear used today is : #1 to sell and #2 If it weren't for all the "training wheel" gear, i.e. BCD's they would have to spend a lot of time teaching skills and couldn't crank out all the potential customers. It's like the proverbial used car dealers; " How can we do it? VOLUME, VOLUME, VOLUME!!!
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Post by Broxton Carol on Apr 8, 2008 11:39:47 GMT -8
Scubadiverbob......... youll have to pay $300.00 since your already using it without vintage certification, even though its not available anyway. This whole thread is getting speculative. Hell are we going to have a vintage vehicle drivers licence for guys who drive vintage cars. Gee they may not know how to handle them. People arent stupid. The vintage guys will just keep going as they have, and the newbies can go get a book at the library, or eekbay and get smart quick. There are no secrets to vintage diving any more than there is to driving a 58 buick!
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Post by cnotthoff on Apr 14, 2008 16:31:12 GMT -8
Reading all your comments about a potential Vintage Diving Specialty course taught through an established certifying agency got me thinking (ouch). Just to be clear, I don’t regularly dive vintage equipment. My expertise and contacts are in diving instruction.
As long as all you want to do is get together with your buddies and trade techniques for diving old gear, you don’t need to worry about industry standards and liability. If you want to charge students and issue certifications, you’ll need to be affiliated with a training agency, that would allow you to obtain liability insurance at a reasonable cost.
As I understand it, NAVED is a club. I belong to one of the oldest dive clubs in the US. Humboldt Skindivers was founded in 1956. Our charter discusses training divers in “lung diving”. That’s how it was done before national training agencies took over. Those times are gone.
Since I’m a NAUI instructor, I explored the possibility of a Vintage Diving Equipment Specialty Course with NAUI.
The NAUI policy on scuba equipment states:
“The minimum equipment worn by students during all training in open water includes: a mask, fins, snorkel, scuba cylinder, and regulator with submersible pressure gauge and an additional regulator second stage (octopus) or other demand type alternate air source, and a buoyancy control device with low pressure inflator.”
I spoke with the training department at NAUI today about designing a course that would be exempted from those equipment standards to allow training with period equipment and techniques. They said no. There are many benefits to those standards, but they don’t help those who want to teach diving the old stuff. Again, these standards only apply to training. NAUI says nothing about what or how you dive once you’re on your own. Having worked some with PADI and SSI, I can assure you they are less flexible than NAUI.
Before NAUI adopted technical diving standards to allow training with Nitrox, I became a Nitrox Instructor through Technical Diving International (TDI). TDI is affiliated with Scuba Diving International (SDI). SDI also has tough equipment standards, but are willing to listen to possible exceptions to those standards. During my conversation with the SDI training department this morning, they were intrigued by the idea of training in the use of vintage diving equipment. SDI allows training in Unique Specialty Courses. These include subjects as unique as Underwater Wedding Officiating. SDI is the only US training agency I know of that is willing to consider a Vintage Equipment Diving Specialty Course.
In order to teach that course and issue certifications through SDI, you would have to be an SDI Instructor (crossover from NAUI or PADI is possible). SDI would require a course outline and proof of instructor’s experience in vintage diving equipment and techniques.
I’ve seen a few other instructors or past instructors on this forum. Their experience with vintage diving equipment, make them more qualified than I am to develop a certifying course. I’d be happy to share my contacts at SDI, if any of you want to take this further.
Good Dives,
Charlie
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Post by duckbill on Apr 14, 2008 21:58:37 GMT -8
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Post by time2dive on May 15, 2008 11:57:40 GMT -8
PADI has approved of my "Vintage Equipment Divers" specialty. The only changes that they made me do is that the divers must have a BCD rather than a backpack, they will not a allow a horse collar, I do not believe that they know what a horse collar is. The instructor or divemaster must have an alternate air source also.
Tim
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Post by swimjim on May 15, 2008 18:06:09 GMT -8
PADI has approved of my "Vintage Equipment Divers" specialty. The only changes that they made me do is that the divers must have a BCD rather than a backpack, they will not a allow a horse collar, I do not believe that they know what a horse collar is. The instructor or divemaster must have an alternate air source also. Tim They believe a horse collar is a big leather thing worn by a horse and has nothing to do with diving. However they do believe the horse should shell out 300 bucks for a specialty course to wear said horse collar.
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Post by duckbill on May 15, 2008 21:28:47 GMT -8
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Post by Broxton Carol on May 17, 2008 7:03:31 GMT -8
Specialty course........... the hell with it. If you want to go dive a doublehoser, and use the old gear, thats your business. You have a c card so who cares what you use. Its your business. If somebody is going to gripe, do business with others who respect your choices. When I went to buy an airplane years ago I picked a 1947 cessna. Its what you call a taildragger. Supposedly hard to fly and land. I rode around for a half an hour with the prior owner, then got in the left seat, and took it off, and did a half dozen landings, three pointing it on the grass, and thats all there was to it. Ive flew over 600 hours in those obsolete taildraggers over the years. Never did anything stupid, and am still alive. Same goes for the vintage gear. If thats what you like, then use it. You got a c card, it dosent say what kind of gear you have to use......YET!
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Post by scubadiverbob on Jul 3, 2008 11:41:47 GMT -8
PADI has approved of my "Vintage Equipment Divers" specialty. The only changes that they made me do is that the divers must have a BCD rather than a backpack, they will not a allow a horse collar, I do not believe that they know what a horse collar is. The instructor or divemaster must have an alternate air source also. Tim Ok ... PADI is really confusing me ... do they make pony jackets without backpacks? All of them I've seen have backpacks. What holds and supports the tanks on these new type of pony jacket BCD's? My Horsecollar happens to be a BCD and works great! Why wouldn't they allow that? It doesn't have a cumberbun with a million straps to buckle and a hundred little d-rings to hold all the crap I don't need to dive with? It's a BCD and doesn't have a backpack attached to it (... BCD rather than a backpack ...). What's up with PADI now-a-days? Robert
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jon
Regular Diver
Posts: 26
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Post by jon on Jul 3, 2008 17:27:53 GMT -8
Right on YankDownUnder, Diving history is important and can inspire the discovery of unencumbered diving vintage style. I broke down and took a PADI course in the early 90's because, after over 30 years, I was beginning to get 'carded' at some of the mainstream dive shops in Mexico and Belize while trying to fill tanks. What a dissappointment that course was, and absolutely no diving history. SeaRat outlines just the opposite of my 'certification' experience. This has been a great thread.
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