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Post by nikeajax on Feb 21, 2015 13:56:37 GMT -8
John, can't wait to hear more 'bout it, eh? I wish that second stage was a little more distinctive though, from far away, or in photos it would most pro'lly look like a USD, grumble, grumble, grumble I always like finding shows where they use dive gear, and trying to figure out what it is Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 21, 2015 19:17:14 GMT -8
Here is the White Stag DEEP 1 first stage, completely disassembled and after white vinegar cleaning. It shows both the ambient side parts and the parts for the low pressure side of the diaphragm. Note the simplicity of this regulator for a diaphragm regulator. Note also that the diaphragm is quite large, something I did not understand until later, when I put everything back together and had a hard time getting that diaphragm back into the regulator. I also noted that there was an interesting development in the ambient side where the diaphragm went--that the cut-out for the diaphragm extended quite a bit beyond the threads, meaning that the diaphragm is larger than the diameter of the cap by a lot. I had to work hard and with a screwdriver to get that diaphragm down and in position, with the white plastic part behind it. Here is the ambient side where the diaphragm went: And here is the ambient side, with the diaphragm, the spring retainer, the spring, and the cap: I placed the two stainless steel washers on top of the spring retainer, and then assembled the entire first stage and put my gauge on it to see whether the IP went up from the 115 measurement I had made earlier. WOW, the IP was at over 200 psig! What the heck was happening? I took out one of the stainless steel washers, and the IP was still over 200 psig (luckily I had not held the pressure release closed as I opened the valve on the 700 psig tank, or I would have ruined my gauge). So I took the other washer off, and re-assembled the unit. I then cranked the cap down on the diaphragm and took a reading--again it was over 200 psig (as high as my gauge would read). What the... I thought this over for a day, and decided to run a bit of an experiment. I loosened the retaining cap on the main spring, quite a bit, and took a reading. Well, the reading went down, but there was no leak from the diaphragm (which is what I had feared). What was happening; this diaphragm was not acting the way the HP diaphragms were working on a Conshelf, for example, where the retaining nut is needed to create a seal between the diaphragm and the HP air. Could it have to do with that weird cutout for the diaphragm? Well, it does. This diaphragm does not act like any other I have seen in a regulator. I am calling it a "floating diaphragm," as it is sealed not by that nut, but by the HP air itself, pushing up on the HP diaphragm to the indented cut-out surface above it (there is no surface above the HP diaphragm on the Conshelf). The combination of the inverted white washer below, and the spring/spring retainer on top, allows the diaphragm to be pushed up and seal against the top of this cutout. This frees the retaining nut to act as a spring tensioner, and set the IP without worrying about sealing the diaphragm. It is a very unique, and interesting design for this regulator. My new Allen wrench tool, with the faces filed to fit this regulator, is also shown in the above photo. The second stage has a very nice, flexible LP diaphragm: The second stage itself is made of Lexan, and have a very nice, three-spire wagon wheel for the ambient mushroom valve. The LP lever is a curved one, which allows the extension but is at the center of the diaphragm. I measured the IP, and at about 200 psig tank pressure, it's around 170 psig (I used a bunch of air out of that tank). At full tank pressure (2100 psig), it's at about 160 psig. So I think this is an unbalance system, but not so unbalanced that it gives a huge pressure difference. Now, I'm going to put my other DEEP 1 second stage on this regulator and take it into the water sometime fairly soon. It really breathes nicely now. John
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Post by nikeajax on Feb 21, 2015 19:48:05 GMT -8
John, forgive me if I missed something, but isn't the IP set via the bonnet you had to make he Allen-wrench fit: as you know, sometimes I don't read things well, and misinterpret them.
Also, can you explain the HP better if you could?
Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 21, 2015 20:21:07 GMT -8
Jaybird,
Yes, you are correct that the IP is set by that bonnet, which I called an end cap. It's part #8 in the parts diagram I published on page 3 of this thread. But most of these bonnets are made in two pieces, the outer piece sealing the diaphragm and the inner piece adjusting the IP. However, on the original Dacor Dial-a-Breath, they had a plate which fit over the spring, and no setting for the IP (just the original tension set the IP). I thought this must be the case with this White Stag DEEP 1 regulator too, but that is not the case. Because of the "floating diaphragm" design, this bonnet can simply act as the IP setting instrument.
The HP air comes in through the sintered filter in the yolk through a small hole, then to the chamber. I believe that in this chamber it acts to push out on the diaphragm and seal it against the outer side of the cut indent below the threads of the bonnet. This indent extends what seems to be about 3/8 inches inside the thread diameter, and if you'll look at the diaphragm itself, you'll see how much larger it is than the thread diameter of the bonnet.
I hope this helps to explain this regulator's unique first stage and its function. I may be able within the next week or so to put together a diagram that would help explain it too.
John
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Post by Seahuntjerry on Feb 21, 2015 21:29:06 GMT -8
Sportsways never sold the White stag regulator or rebranded them
note reef diver deluxe has a downstream valve.I think the second stage covers look like a tin can,Cheesy good for Wisconsin Ha Ha!
Frank, my tilt valve model just says White Stag Sea Lung on it
note reef diver deluxe has a downstream valve.I think the second stage covers look like a tin can,Cheesy good for Wisconsin Ha Ha!
(Note: SeahuntJerry, I have consolidated your posts into one. I hope you don't mind. John)
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Post by vintagefrank on Feb 25, 2015 10:49:24 GMT -8
Hi Jerry,
the Reef Diver had (except for the last year) never the Name on the plate. All the others had since 1964.
regards frank
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sidm
Pro Diver
Posts: 219
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Post by sidm on Feb 26, 2015 9:08:12 GMT -8
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Post by SeaRat on Mar 1, 2015 22:18:25 GMT -8
Sid, I have those White Stag fins too; I used them in the 1970s when I was in the USAF. All, I have finished my White Stag DEEP 1 regulator, and put a second 2nd stage onto it. The two second stages, separated for so many years, are very close in serial numbers. The one with the regulator is 22624, and the one I've had since the 1970s is 22640. They may have come out of the same batch of second stages, and it is one of my favorite second stage designs (better, I felt in 1975 than the MR-12). I took pleasure in taking the long hose off my original Calypso and putting it onto the White Stag DEEP 1 regulator, so as to be DIR compliant with a 1970s regulator (which probably performs as well as today's regulators). The regulator is on the rocking chair as I was glueing together a broken support, and needed the weight. John
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Post by nikeajax on Mar 2, 2015 8:32:04 GMT -8
"The regulator is on the rocking chair as I was glueing together a broken support, and needed the weight."Gosh John, I gotta remember that one for next time, "Gee honey..." Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Mar 20, 2015 17:01:46 GMT -8
I had my White Stag DEEP 1 in the water today, on a brief dive that I'll write up for the Dacor Nautilus (which had problems). I'll talk about the Nautilus on that thread later, when I download the dive profile. But the White Stag DEEP 1 regulator was in the water, and performed pretty well. However, I had the IP set too high, so it leaked when in the water due to pressure differentials. It provided me all the air I needed though, and otherwise functioned very well.
John
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Post by nikeajax on Jan 19, 2017 13:41:58 GMT -8
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Post by SeaRat on Jan 19, 2017 16:14:07 GMT -8
Jaybird,
Very nice. Any possibility of a scan of the White Stag documentation sheet?
John
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Post by nikeajax on Jan 19, 2017 17:14:08 GMT -8
John: Absolutely, I'll hopefully be doing it Saturday! Mark: one of the things I noticed on the nomenclature is "standard size o-rings": yeah, I know, I shouldn't mention this; it might give people ideas about being able to think for themselves and work on their own gear... And yes, I know I'm going to ache-eee-double-toothpicks for it! JB
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Post by nikeajax on Jan 21, 2017 11:56:31 GMT -8
Please click through for bigger image! JB
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Post by SeaRat on Jan 21, 2017 16:57:59 GMT -8
My goodness, Jaybird. That's a great handout. I had no idea that this was a balanced design--didn't test it. So it's a diaphragm/piston combination. I love "new" or different designs, and both of us have one of these regulators.
John
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