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Post by regulator68bj on Feb 15, 2015 19:10:27 GMT -8
Thanks john for post those drawings we saw little of the "White Stag" range in the UK.(catalogues/magazine) interesting note the 1st Stage design of the "DEEP11"unit was also marketed by "Sub Aquatic Systems" as the "SUB 11"
PM me and will forward some images litremeter@talktalk.net
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 15, 2015 19:23:55 GMT -8
I just checked the interstage pressure on my DEEP 1 first stage, and it is not impressive. But I did confirm that this is an unbalanced diaphragm regulator, as the interstage pressure went up as the tank pressure decreased. Here are the stats:
Tank psi.............................Interstage pressure................................Drop to while purged
..650..................................110..........................................................92 .2175.................................105..........................................................82
I don't yet know how these internals work, except by the parts diagram above. But there must be a way of increasing the interstage pressure. It needs to be up into the 125-135 psig range to make this regulator perform well enough for me to take it into open water. ______________________ It's several hours later, and I now have had the LP side apart. I have photos too that I'll upload tomorrow. There is a spring on the LP side which controls the interstage pressure. I played around with the spring compression; loosening the adjusting nut lowered the interstage pressure, and loosening it more removed any pressure from the LP side. I had to screw it in to remove the HP pressure and get the regulator off the tank. So I now have this spring tightened as far as possible. But the interstage pressure simply isn't high enough. It appears that the spring, which has been under compression for all these years, has lost some of its "umph." Because of this, I will try to find a couple of stainless washers that can enhance the tension, and increase the interstage pressure. I won't dive this regulator until I can get the interstage pressure to where the regulator will perform and give me enough air while diving in heavy current.
I am ignoring the ambient side of the diaphragm, as at this point it seems that there is no way to adjust the pressure from this side. The nut, which I still cannot get off, appears to seal the diaphragm, and so would necessarily be tightened all the way down.
John
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 16, 2015 8:39:42 GMT -8
I've now uploaded the photos of the DEEP 1 regulator. I also have it on a tank equipped with a White Stag hard BC. Here are the photos: Photo 1: The whole scuba system. Photo 2: Close-up of the DEEP 1 regulator. Note the circular style of the first stage body. Photo 3: Close-up of the DEEP 1 first stage. The ambient side of the diaphragm is on the right, and the LP side on the left with the LP hose coming out of that port. The LP hose outlets (2) are off to one side, and probably do not have flow properties which are as good as the air must turn corners to get there. Photo 4: This is the "innards" of the LP side of this diaphragm regulator. The "seat" is actually that large O-ring. With the spring inside the retainer, and the retainer tightened as far as it can go, I get the LP settings noted above. If the spring is less, the pressure is less and then goes to zero. This is a rather weird setup, but seems effective. I am going to experiment with lengthening the spring in an attempt to increase the pressure, or adding a washer. Photo 5: This is the inside of the body where the first stage resides. The HP air comes into the chamber from the bottom of the photo. Well that's it. It is actually a pretty simply mechanism. John
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Post by kgehring on Feb 16, 2015 18:49:56 GMT -8
Add to your list: SEA LUNG Deep III 2 versions Deep Dreadnaught Dreadnaught Instructional
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 16, 2015 22:21:46 GMT -8
I went to my LDS today with the DEEP 1 regulator, and they also tried all their Allen wrenches without success for the first stage diaphragm retainer. Bobby, who was a Master Machinist, speculated that this opening, which looks like an Allen wrench opening, is actually using a Whitworth wrench. Apparently Whitworth wrenches originated out of England, and were used in the auto industry for some parts, and in the bicycle industry too. So I can either get one of those, or take a larger Allen wrench and get out my file. I also went to the hardware store, and got two stainless steel washers and a new spring. I tried the new spring first, but it was a bit longer and I had real problems trying to get the retainer nut to screw in (it wouldn't). So I tried the stainless washer, and with the original spring it got the spring in sideways. In removing the spring, I elongated it as it was stuck hard into the threads on the side. That distorted the spring a bit, and I thought that might increase the interstage pressure too, but it does not seem to have done so. At this point, I may have a wall-hanger for a first stage, as I won't take it into open water until it is performing to my expectations. John
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Post by nikeajax on Feb 17, 2015 10:17:55 GMT -8
I say, that's most uncivilized and rather ghastly old boy! Stick with it: never say die, we'll teach those bounders, eh? BTW can you show use more of the guts, diaphragm etc? Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 17, 2015 14:47:04 GMT -8
Jaybird,
That's as much as I've been able to get to for the first stage. When I can get that end cap off, I'll show more.
John
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 15:45:46 GMT -8
I went to my LDS today with the DEEP 1 regulator, and they also tried all their Allen wrenches without success for the first stage diaphragm retainer. Bobby, who was a Master Machinist, speculated that this opening, which looks like an Allen wrench opening, is actually using a Whitworth wrench. Apparently Whitworth wrenches originated out of England, and were used in the auto industry for some parts, and in the bicycle industry too. So I can either get one of those, or take a larger Allen wrench and get out my file. I also went to the hardware store, and got two stainless steel washers and a new spring. I tried the new spring first, but it was a bit longer and I had real problems trying to get the retainer nut to screw in (it wouldn't). So I tried the stainless washer, and with the original spring it got the spring in sideways. In removing the spring, I elongated it as it was stuck hard into the threads on the side. That distorted the spring a bit, and I thought that might increase the interstage pressure too, but it does not seem to have done so. At this point, I may have a wall-hanger for a first stage, as I won't take it into open water until it is performing to my expectations. John John Did you take measurements of the spring before you tried anything with it?..........wire dia. bore dia. OD and length?..........you might try grinding or cutting of a tad of the new spring to make it the same length.....if all the other dimensions are the same. If not, try Century Spring Corporation online.......they might have something close......just needs to be close, in all my 4 USD 2nd stage springs.......there were two sizes....
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 17, 2015 19:24:57 GMT -8
OldMossback,
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll continue to work on it, and may try Century Spring Corporation too.
John
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Post by cnotthoff on Feb 17, 2015 21:53:02 GMT -8
John,
I have a few drawers full of springs from old scuba regulators and valves. If you give me an idea of the size, I can probably send you a few to try out.
good dives,
Charlie
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 18, 2015 8:07:51 GMT -8
I say, that's most uncivilized and rather ghastly old boy! Stick with it: never say die, we'll teach those bounders, eh? BTW can you show use more of the guts, diaphragm etc? Jaybird Ah, Jaybird, I'm talking about filing on my larger Allen wrench, not on the regulator! I need to get at that part of the first stage. As I was in bed and awake last evening, I was thinking that I may be "attacking" the wrong spring. I think maybe the larger spring, that I cannot currently access, may be the key to upping the interstage pressure. John Read more: vintagescuba.proboards.com/thread/3614/white-stag-regulator-who-finally?page=4#ixzz3S75mDAF0
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Post by nikeajax on Feb 18, 2015 9:34:50 GMT -8
John, I was talkin' 'bout the need for very specialized wrench to work on the danged thing: that's one of my pet-peeves, as I like to take everything apart to see how they work!
Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 18, 2015 12:35:00 GMT -8
John, I was talkin' 'bout the need for very specialized wrench to work on the danged thing: that's one of my pet-peeves, as I like to take everything apart to see how they work! Jaybird Jaybird, 15 strokes of my file on each face side of my larger Allen wrench (held in a vice) and whatchaknow, I have a "specialized wrench" tool. The first stage is completely apart, and is just as is in the parts diagram, a diaphragm (flexible, and in good shape), a spring washer, and the spring, then the cap. It was that opening on the cap that gave me fits, but once I had a wrench to fit it, the cap came right off. This reminds me of the Dacor Dial-a-Breath, as the original one had no adjustment on the interstage pressure. I might treat it the same, and simply add a washer to the large spring side to see what happens. As the news folks say, photos at six. John
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Post by nikeajax on Feb 19, 2015 12:35:38 GMT -8
"15 strokes of my file on each face side of my larger Allen wrench (held in a vice) and whatchaknow, I have a "specialized wrench" tool..."Attaboy! Jaybird
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Post by SeaRat on Feb 20, 2015 23:08:50 GMT -8
I have some very, very good news about this DEEP 1 regulator--it is back together, and the regulator interstage pressure "problem" is only a problem because of the unique design of this regulator. It is now at an optimum interstage pressure somewhere around 140 psig. I'll have more, and I have a lot of photos, this weekend. But this now appears to be a very, very good regulator, and not a wall-hanger at all. John
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